Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[msvs]

a list will come soon

[tapekiller]

Hello Manuel I collected few suggestion lately, I wanted to share them here and know what you think and also everyone's thoughts on these

1) double click on envelope points to delete rather than adding a new point on top of the old one. It speeds up the process of drawing envelopes, because if you want to add a new point near the old one you can double click in a free area and drag, and you can draw envelopes faster without having to reach for your keyboard or right clicking and choosing delete to delete points.
In the long run this is incredibly helpful, for both mouse and trackpad. Since envelopes are very good in Avenger, the only thing that cripples it is using the contextual menu for every point that has been already drawn or using ALT+LMB (which maybe not everyone is familiar with). Furthermore the "double click to delete" would be consistent with many DAWs.

2) add an option that allows to draw freeform oscillators as envelopes.

3) add a checkbox near envelopes speed that has the function of scaling the speed of the envelope (MODENV and PITCH) with the different notes. Basically a KeyPosition modifier factor, because envelopes speeds are fixed and can't be linked to key position. Since the sampler in avenger is really nice it's a shame to not be able to use it directly to edit the samples' pitch envelopes and keep the behaviour across all notes. In theory it shouldn't be much work, just add a multiplicative factor dependent on the note frequency, and divide by the frequency of the note that you want to use as central (1) which can be for example C5 (so something like

Code: Select all

speed * (played note frequency/523.25

) or something like that. Maybe the bigger part of the work here would be making pitch envelopes polyphonic (meaning that different notes can trigger different individual behaviours) because as far as my understanding goes right now you can't play two notes that have different pitch envelopes range even if range is linked to key position. Am I correct?

4) Contextual menu for folders in the FILES tab. I use it more frequently than the content tab due to the space-efficient size of the font and lack of zoom animations, in just looks and works better.
If it's not possible at least give files (presets mostly) the same contextual menu that they have in the content tab.

[tapekiller]

a list will come soon

Looking forward to it

[msvs]

1.) yes that would be theoretically no problem.
2.) dont know if thats possible. But there will be an option to live record envs in a later update, like you can do in the gran env
3.) thats already possible, just assign keytrack to the modEnv speed. Its also polyphone already.
4.) the files tab is not meant for preset browsing, the preset browser looks and works better imho.

[tapekiller]

What I mean about envelope speeds is that it's true that envelopes per se are polyphonic (voice independent) but if I have assigned speed with a keytrack mod and play two notes at the same time both notes will use only one speed instead of having their own individual speeds.
I think this is because using a keytrack mod for the envelope speed modifies the speed parameter which will be used as long as the note is pressed. So in the end the speed parameter is monophonic because there can't be multiple different speeds at the same time... Maybe I'm missing something, but in simpler terms if I'm playing a chord all notes will follow only one speed, and not different individual speeds. I hope I'm expressing myself clearly.
Perhaps this is just a very specific complication, I just thought it would be handy to have a proper keytrack follow on envelopes speeds just like there is a keytrack follow for filter frequencies.

As far as the rest is concerned, 2) should be possible, and actually there already is an implementation of the idea already in Avenger: custom LFO.
LFOs are just slow oscillators, and the three custom ones are already used for FM. So, in the end, envelopes are already being used as oscillators. And if these can't be used as freeform oscillators, maybe just create another category and pick the drawn oscillators from the custom LFO section. The only downside would be that the area to draw custom oscillators (c-LFO) is very small and it would be nice to draw them in a sub category of the EDIT tab (like FREEFORM does, it's a perfect spot for them)

About the preset tab, there is something that puts me off very much, which is the zooming effect and the size of the categories and presets names. The way it looks reminds me of old clunky flash game menus. No doubt many can like it, it's just a matter of personal preference.
I simply prefer quick accessibility of my presets at a glance, and with the file tab I can navigate through them much quicker because there are many more presets (and folders) displayed at once, and I feel like there is less wasted space. But again, personal preference.
For example, I was in love with the first skin I saw of Avenger (the minimal white one), I still think that was PERFECT and I hope every day that you'll implement it because it's all I've ever wanted the synth to look like to begin with. If I had the time, resources and skills to do something like that myself I definitely would drop my hobbies and do it with no doubt.

As a sidenote, I hope the new copy protection implementation is coming along nicely.

It's always nice to discuss about this stuff.

[tapekiller]

I was looking through my older posts in this thread and noticed a reply about the 2, 4, 6 unison issue.
I'm late to the party, but thank you very much for that fix, for many sounds I have stopped using avenger for that reason (mainly drum and bass sounds) because I use the 2 way unison a lot, but now I'm happy I can go back to it and use it.

[Ryan99]

Here's a video posted by Manuel on Facebook about recording an ARP in Midi:

[100tifiko]

a list will come soon

[msvs]

@Tapekiller
I know exactly what you mean, but I can say for sure, that we added polyphony for ModEnv Speed modulations quite a time ago. I just dont know atm if it was already in 1.4.10 or its in 1.5.0. Btw the white skin will be in 1.5.0, too.
PS: a custom LFO and a freeform differs internally. While a shape has "x" points, the custom lfo has defined points. Thats a big difference internally. Sure its not impossible to implement. But what do you want to do with it? FM comes into my mind, since for all "slower" LFO jobs, you could use a ModEnv instead. And for FM we already have the possibility to route other OSCS (shapes, WTs, even samples) as modulator.

[scoplunk]

I've only had Avenger a few weeks and while we're on the subject of envelopes, I keep trying to select multiple points on the mod and pitch envelopes so that I can move them as a unit, but I guess this isn't implemented? It's also strange that there's no slide mode, which allows following points to also move when an earlier point is moved. Some of these limitations aren't so noticeable when building my own envelopes, but they seriously slow down my workflow when I'm starting with a preset and want to edit it.

What I'd actually like to see is for the step seq, mod envelope and pitch envelope pages to work more or less like the arp page as far as selecting goes. Hold Shift and drag to select multiple points or Shift select individual points and then move them forward, back, up or down. It's really tedious to have to move every single point and since the selection behavior is inconsistent between editors, the system is a bit confusing.

I absolutely hate it that my first post regarding this amazing instrument is a criticism, so let me just say that it takes a lot to get me to purchase yet another virtual synth (or hardware synth, for that matter). I've had tons of them, have been voicing them for most of my life and I have to feel like there's something worthwhile about one of them before I'll even consider spending time to learn it. I like instruments like Zebra 2 and Alchemy and Structure because they're powerful and they can do things that sound unique. I don't need another virtual minimoog. When I saw Avenger was on sale, I figured I'd download the demo, find some good reason to not buy it and move on. I never found that reason. I tried, but I failed. It really is fabulous and I find the workflow unusually intuitive considering the complexity of the instrument. Anyway, I've barely scratched the surface of what Avenger can do and I'm completely hooked and having a lot of fun with it. I guess the most important thing is that I feel like I don't have another instrument that does all the things that Avenger does. It's unique. I think I didn't check it out sooner because it has a reputation as an EDM synth and I'm not an EDM guy, but Avenger is simply a killer sound design tool. It has nothing to do with genres. You can make whatever you want with it. This is an instrument Rene and Manuel should really be proud of. Thanks guys!

[100tifiko]

I am hoping for the drums to have a search option to search for drum samples and also for the sequencer to have A B C D like the arp

[bmanic]

Ok, time to copy some ideas from the Chinese for once.



There are tons of interesting synthesis ideas in this. Many that are already somewhat featured in Avenger.. but there are a few interesting ones that could be "borrowed" or at least take inspiration from.

[tapekiller]

@Tapekiller
I know exactly what you mean, but I can say for sure, that we added polyphony for ModEnv Speed modulations quite a time ago. I just dont know atm if it was already in 1.4.10 or its in 1.5.0. Btw the white skin will be in 1.5.0, too.
PS: a custom LFO and a freeform differs internally. While a shape has "x" points, the custom lfo has defined points. Thats a big difference internally. Sure its not impossible to implement. But what do you want to do with it? FM comes into my mind, since for all "slower" LFO jobs, you could use a ModEnv instead. And for FM we already have the possibility to route other OSCS (shapes, WTs, even samples) as modulator.

I understand. This makes me even more anxious about 1.5, I'm really looking forward to it.
What I would use a custom envelope for is simply using the shape of the envelope as an oscillator.
I probably started with the wrong premise comparing freeform with custom envelopes, what I meant was simply that it is nice to be able to use custom shapes as oscillators, and right now we can do it with freeform. But what I was suggesting is that, since we also have custom LFOs, we could use them as generator oscillators too instead of using them only as modulators (both for parameters, and for FM-AM). And, just like with equalizers, we could expand the shapes into the central section (in the editor tab, next to FFT, where the various freeform-wavetable-granular editing windows appear) to edit them in a larger window.
Sorry if I wasn't very clear, I reckon I might have worded it wrongly creating some confusion.
Still, thanks a lot for the new features, really really looking forward to them.

[starflakeprj]

Ok, time to copy some ideas from the Chinese for once.



There are tons of interesting synthesis ideas in this. Many that are already somewhat featured in Avenger.. but there are a few interesting ones that could be "borrowed" or at least take inspiration from.

I think it's the HYDRASYNTH which lacks a lot of features that Avenger has. I see what you mean though

[Stefken]

Fans of dark UI's and a fast workflow, may want to check out my skins for Avenger.

To pick them up or more info, head over to my website: https://stefken.wixsite.com/skins/

They are available in 3 flavors

Dark Avenger - Blue

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Dark Avenger - Original

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