DAW vs Tracker

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

there are no hacks in it, https://tutorials.renoise.com/wiki/Phrase_Editor is part of the program, with the extensions just don't have to do the create phrase/start-stop recording into it/clean the phrases at the end etc. loops by hand

My mistake. Maybe I didn't see the video.

Didn't the Phrase Editor arrive after Redux, due to user demand? Either way, not sure what I'd use it for. Also, I'm not sure it solves the chord-recording issue I was referring to i.e that notes played from a musical keyboard will register in the order they are played, and even the slightest discrepancy between the timing of the notes can change the order from the previously recorded chords. This means that one chord might have the root note in the first column, but with every successive chord that same root note can end up in another column entirely. Makes it a real pain to follow.

[sjm]

It's more about "is this the best too for the job?" for me. Sure you can do it, but is it the quickest route to success? I'd say no for a lot of genres where variation is key.

Clearly you have more experience with the software (I'm just starting out). And while I tend to agree with most of what you say, I still think that there is no such thing as the "Ideal" tool. It might seem like a cliché, but the "ideal" tool is the one that gets the job done. There's no point having the industry-standard application for a given genre, if opening it fills you with dread

Yeah, I used trackers for years. First on the Amiga, then on the PC. I'd used things approximating what we might call a DAW too. Once I got to the point where I wanted to record my own audio tracks (guitar, vocals etc.) on the PC, I switched to the DAW paradigm for most stuff. But I'd still fire up trackers to make "electro", simply because I prefer the interface for that type of thing.

There were a few years before I got my first audio interface when I had an analog 4-track, and mixing paradigms worked fine with that approach - they were all just audio sources after all. But once it's all ITB, it's nicer to stick with one piece of software if you can.

As an aside, I regularly use the step sequencer to program my first rough drum patterns, again, because it's quicker than the piano roll as long as you don't care about the more fine grain details things like velocity and subtle shifts in timing. There's huge parallels between the step sequencer and tracker interfaces. I'd really love a tracker interface in my DAW for the best of all worlds. Knock up the pattern in the tracker view, then switch to another view for automation purposes and to fine tune things like velocity with the mouse. Which is pretty much what you're saying with different tools have different advantages and disadvantages.

But seeing as I can't currently have both (easily), I go with the DAW paradigm, because in the long run, it's more efficient for me. I have in the past also written parts in a tracker, then exported as MIDI and loaded the tracks in my DAW. But it's an extra step along the way that I just can't be bothered with. It's not that much slower to just clicky clicky the notes in the piano roll. So it's hard to justify the extra steps, especially as they tend to rip you out of what you're doing right now if you need to context switch.

[xbitz]

there are no hacks in it, https://tutorials.renoise.com/wiki/Phrase_Editor is part of the program, with the extensions just don't have to do the create phrase/start-stop recording into it/clean the phrases at the end etc. loops by hand

My mistake. Maybe I didn't see the video.

Didn't the Phrase Editor arrive after Redux, due to user demand? Either way, not sure what I'd use it for. Also, I'm not sure it solves the chord-recording issue I was referring to i.e that notes played from a musical keyboard will register in the order they are played, and even the slightest discrepancy between the timing of the notes can change the order from the previously recorded chords. This means that one chord might have the root note in the first column, but with every successive chord that same root note can end up in another column entirely. Makes it a real pain to follow.

^^^ this is why I've mentioned VoiceRunner which

This tool adds highly configurable pattern-data sorting to Renoise. You can sort notes by scope (selection in pattern/phrase, column/track in pattern, and more), using various sorting algorithms.

can solve it for you

https://www.renoise.com/tools/voicerunner

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I have in the past also written parts in a tracker, then exported as MIDI and loaded the tracks in my DAW. But it's an extra step along the way that I just can't be bothered with.

Maybe Redux would get you there. Ultimately, i can imagine ending up using Redux. But I know if I started with that inside my main DAW I'd never learn it. Diving into Renoise 'proper' might remove those 'half-way' distractions

[xbitz]

btw. the "step-poly" mode of MouseWarrior also can be used for chord related editing

even has scale highlight too and more

https://forum.renoise.com/t/new-tool-3- ... itor/45452

[sjm]

Maybe Redux would get you there.

The main reason I'd want it in the DAW itself is for the ease of switching paradigms. In other words, the ability to make changes to a pattern using whichever interface is quicker for getting the job done. If I shift a note in the piano roll, it'd be reflected in the tracker interface with the appropriate note delay commands; if I add notes in the tracker, they'd show up in the piano roll immediately for editing. That kind of presupposes a lower level integration with the data being handled at the DAW level, rather than by independent plugins.

I've tried third party stuff in the past, but it doesn't offer the level of integration I'd want.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

btw. the "step-poly" mode of MouseWarrior also can be used for chord related editing (also sorts the different voices nicely)

That's now three add-on tools you've recommended to me. I haven't even got to grips with the basic program, yet

And while I do appreciate it, I was only remarking about the chord-recording issues for another member who asked. I have no intentions of 'playing' chords in Renoise, as I have a beautiful Roli Rise and LPX for that. It just isn't my intention to bend the workflow of one program towards another (Though if I ever decided that Renoise was going to be my one-and-only platform, some workflow-emulating tools might become useful).

It's worth re-emphasising (As I think you are missing it) that I am not trying to be purist for it's own sake. I have for a long time been experiencing the consistent frustration of sitting down at the keyboard and hitting the same dead-ends, to the extent that I have not recorded more than a few bars in a few years. Picking out musical passages on a qwerty keyboard, and trying to navigate a blurry (Not so much with the current update) maze of hexadecimal madness is the diametric opposite of what I am used to, and that's exactly what I am after. It will provide options that I wouldn't normally see, and force me to make choices i wouldn't normally make. At least that's the idea, anyway. I am looking forward to where such an approach might lead

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I've tried third party stuff in the past, but it doesn't offer the level of integration I'd want.

Gotcha!

[gentleclockdivider]

I would like to know can you record into this daw with a midi keyboard similar to how you would with say Cubase? I dont want to punch in data with the computer keyboard.

I am thinking about trying to learn Renoise, too, and was thinking the same thing. I saw this, which looks very interesting: https://forum.renoise.com/t/new-tool-3- ... 2019/49722.

Of course you can use you r midi keyboard to record

[v1o]

They still use trackers to make music for modern retro style games. Games on the SNES and N64 used trackers to sequence music to save on cartridge space.

Apart from Aodix, Buzz and Renoise another good tracker is Psycle by the late great Arguru.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/psycle/
http://psycle.pastnotecut.org/portal.php

[clangorous]

I'm not a tracker guy but Studio One has the ability to insert "Patterns" in your track that are basically this sample-based tracker approach. Quick and easy to create with it. Separate views for drums and instruments which makes it even easier to use.

[gentleclockdivider]

I'm not a tracker guy but Studio One has the ability to insert "Patterns" in your track that are basically this sample-based tracker approach. Quick and easy to create with it. Separate views for drums and instruments which makes it even easier to use.

Has nothing to do with trackers
But yeah , the studio one step patterns are pretty nice , polymetric and polyrytmic too ..but nothing renoise can not do ( phrases allow polymeter and polyrhytmic patterns )

[Caine123]

Thx so much guys! I will have to check out the programs. I checked out on youtube fasttracker 2 cause of the old skaven stuff.

I got 3 more questions:

1. If you use a tracker you definitely need to know and mastered scales i guess? Cause in daws you can mostly highlight them.

2. Can you shift a whole project to different semitones?

3. How did people get this old school kinda lofi sound? Which? Or do trackers samples down automatically?





When you listen to those you hear they are not clear in sound like when you play on a synth.

Thx

[clangorous]

I'm not a tracker guy but Studio One has the ability to insert "Patterns" in your track that are basically this sample-based tracker approach. Quick and easy to create with it. Separate views for drums and instruments which makes it even easier to use.

Has nothing to do with trackers
But yeah , the studio one step patterns are pretty nice , polymetric and polyrytmic too ..but nothing renoise can not do ( phrases allow polymeter and polyrhytmic patterns )

Ah well I then learned something at least And reading through this I'm tempted to try Renoise!

[ls1xxx]

This thing have some kind of live mode built in?