So... Is Guitar Rig dead?

[machinesworking]

AGAIN, for all those who missed the plot, IT DEAD IN DEVELOPMENT.

Sheeesh, why is it so hard to express this? It's been like 7 years, right? Am I right???????????

because moving the goalposts is what it's all about, at least from what I can tell. Don't you understand? no matter what you say, you're wrong.

[machinesworking]

So lets recap. You, in a thread about one of their audio applications, Guitar Rig, you said that they're abandoning software, and I ask you which specific software they've abandoned in the past ten years, and you answered 'why dont you look at this list of hardware drivers' And now you're saying that the software that they've abandoned isnt audio applications like Guitar Rig, its hardware drivers, and that's not you moving goalposts because hardware drivers are software. Agreed?

Yes audio drivers, software for hardware, that is attached at the hip to the software we are talking about. I'm somehow moving goalposts because I'm talking about Guitar Rigs ancillary directly related product? You're reaching here. Software is software, whether it's a plug in or a driver, you're not making any sense.

Indeed. Which is why Im still sticking to the original goalposts of my question, despite your attempt to move them. What software has NI abandoned in the past ten years? What is the specific evidence you claim there is that Guitar Rig is going to be abandoned?

I've already stated it, the fact that you refuse to see my point? I can't help you with that. It's one of those internet argument things were people decide there are "sides". You've decided that NI are not going to abandon Guitar Rig, and I'm not so sure? We are not going to agree on that, especially since you've decided that only evidence you personally deem important is valid... no matter what you actually said.

I mean if you are please clarify, but I just don't see it. My point stands, NI have a history of abandoning software, and in my opinion it's not less egregious or consequential that the recent discontinued product is software for hardware support.

Actually, they have two points in their entire history where they abandoned any software-that's actually-software-applications-and-not-hardware-drivers software, and one of those instances was codependent on hardware, and its all more than ten years ago.
That's 'a history' in the same way you have a history of wetting your bed.

They've had multiple points. They had two or more plug in formats before .nks for instance. I've owned Absynth since v1.5, Komplete since v2. Recently since Kore it's better recently, but Rig Kontrol and some other audio cards had driver development stop on them, and recent versions of Controller Editor are not supporting MKI Maschine controllers.
I don't hate NI, but I do not think it's a smart move to rely on them for long term solutions, especially hardware.

As far as your wetting the bed comment, I'm not sure why you think that's a valid debate tactic? it's as stupid and childish as gets. It flatly lets me know that you have no real point. There is no moving of goalposts by me here and it takes a lot of intentional avoidance to deny that drivers are software, that no new updates as a clue doesn't count NI's recent layoffs etc.

I agree, Guitar Rig is not "dead" in the strictest sense, but everyone ganging on people who have concern in this thread is as much nonsense as claiming with certainty that it's dead.

Personally I'm more than happy to be wrong, my wish is for NI to get their head out of their ass and release VST3 versions of Guitar Rig, Absynth etc with new GUIs etc. I don't see it though, NI's statement about "consolidating for a new platform" plus all of the rest says that the most I can hope for is VST3.

So you're missing the point of the recap entirely. I asked you which software NI had abandoned in the past ten years. As per established common usage, my use of 'software' in my question referred to software applications, not drivers. Because whilst drivers are software, the accepted use is not to refer to drivers just as 'software'; the accepted, common, well-understood, specific term is 'drivers.' Or, less frequently, 'software drivers' or 'driver software.'
And in not using any of those terms, I used the accepted, common, well-understood, meaning of 'software', ie software applications. In my question.

And Ive made it quite clear since that 'drivers' wasnt what I was asking about.

And yet here you are, trying to argue that Im missing a point because the term 'software' in my question somehow hinges on ' Guitar Rigs ancillary directly related product' despite my assertion otherwise.

Disingenousness or just plain refusal to answer the question that was actually asked?

Lol! you're the one framing the argument, then moving the goalposts, not me. The attempt to say drivers do not count as software is a weak argument, so is saying that ancillary hardware being discontinued is not evidence of a products health. Flatly, I mentioned NI abandoning software, I even alluded to what type of software it was, and you present your question to my statement. When I explain what I meant, you do not get to tell me what I meant, that's ridiculous. The attempt to do so, just read it, think about a how awkward that is, you're literally trying to tell me what I meant, or that software drivers are not software because they aren't software applications. You have every right to say that you do not think that drivers count as software, and I have every right to say that's ridiculous, but you don't get to determine what I meant when it's clear as day what I meant. You don't win anything by trying to frame the argument, and you certainly aren't convincing me that you're right, you just look like a misguided pedant, that's all.

The dumbest part is it's not even that interesting of a discussion, only time will tell what NI does, and arguing details, defending or decrying is pointless. As it stands, NI continue to discontinue drivers, and supporting MIDI compatibility software (Controller Editor support), for older hardware. As it stands no plug in application has been discontinued in quite a while, we can agree on that.

[mixtur.se]

So lets recap. You, in a thread about one of their audio applications, Guitar Rig, you said that they're abandoning software, and I ask you which specific software they've abandoned in the past ten years, and you answered 'why dont you look at this list of hardware drivers' And now you're saying that the software that they've abandoned isnt audio applications like Guitar Rig, its hardware drivers, and that's not you moving goalposts because hardware drivers are software. Agreed?

Yes audio drivers, software for hardware, that is attached at the hip to the software we are talking about. I'm somehow moving goalposts because I'm talking about Guitar Rigs ancillary directly related product? You're reaching here. Software is software, whether it's a plug in or a driver, you're not making any sense.

Indeed. Which is why Im still sticking to the original goalposts of my question, despite your attempt to move them. What software has NI abandoned in the past ten years? What is the specific evidence you claim there is that Guitar Rig is going to be abandoned?

I've already stated it, the fact that you refuse to see my point? I can't help you with that. It's one of those internet argument things were people decide there are "sides". You've decided that NI are not going to abandon Guitar Rig, and I'm not so sure? We are not going to agree on that, especially since you've decided that only evidence you personally deem important is valid... no matter what you actually said.

I mean if you are please clarify, but I just don't see it. My point stands, NI have a history of abandoning software, and in my opinion it's not less egregious or consequential that the recent discontinued product is software for hardware support.

Actually, they have two points in their entire history where they abandoned any software-that's actually-software-applications-and-not-hardware-drivers software, and one of those instances was codependent on hardware, and its all more than ten years ago.
That's 'a history' in the same way you have a history of wetting your bed.

They've had multiple points. They had two or more plug in formats before .nks for instance. I've owned Absynth since v1.5, Komplete since v2. Recently since Kore it's better recently, but Rig Kontrol and some other audio cards had driver development stop on them, and recent versions of Controller Editor are not supporting MKI Maschine controllers.
I don't hate NI, but I do not think it's a smart move to rely on them for long term solutions, especially hardware.

As far as your wetting the bed comment, I'm not sure why you think that's a valid debate tactic? it's as stupid and childish as gets. It flatly lets me know that you have no real point. There is no moving of goalposts by me here and it takes a lot of intentional avoidance to deny that drivers are software, that no new updates as a clue doesn't count NI's recent layoffs etc.

I agree, Guitar Rig is not "dead" in the strictest sense, but everyone ganging on people who have concern in this thread is as much nonsense as claiming with certainty that it's dead.

Personally I'm more than happy to be wrong, my wish is for NI to get their head out of their ass and release VST3 versions of Guitar Rig, Absynth etc with new GUIs etc. I don't see it though, NI's statement about "consolidating for a new platform" plus all of the rest says that the most I can hope for is VST3.

So you're missing the point of the recap entirely. I asked you which software NI had abandoned in the past ten years. As per established common usage, my use of 'software' in my question referred to software applications, not drivers. Because whilst drivers are software, the accepted use is not to refer to drivers just as 'software'; the accepted, common, well-understood, specific term is 'drivers.' Or, less frequently, 'software drivers' or 'driver software.'
And in not using any of those terms, I used the accepted, common, well-understood, meaning of 'software', ie software applications. In my question.

And Ive made it quite clear since that 'drivers' wasnt what I was asking about.

And yet here you are, trying to argue that Im missing a point because the term 'software' in my question somehow hinges on ' Guitar Rigs ancillary directly related product' despite my assertion otherwise.

Disingenousness or just plain refusal to answer the question that was actually asked?

Examples of abandoned products:
B3
Pro 53
Spektral delay
Vokator
FM7
Kore player
ELEKTRIK PIANO
etc etc

[perfumer]

When I explain what I meant, you do not get to tell me what I meant, that's ridiculous. The attempt to do so, just read it, think about a how awkward that is, you're literally trying to tell me what I meant, or that software drivers are not software because they aren't software applications. You have every right to say that you do not think that drivers count as software, and I have every right to say that's ridiculous, but you don't get to determine what I meant when it's clear as day what I meant. You don't win anything by trying to frame the argument, and you certainly aren't convincing me that you're right, you just look like a misguided pedant, that's all.

BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT YOU MEANT, AND YOU DON'T! But not only that, you are also WRONG! And don't call him a pedant, or else he'll throw you to the mods!

Hey machinesworking, this guy is special, you know what I'm saying?!

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

AGAIN, for all those who missed the plot, IT DEAD IN DEVELOPMENT.

Sheeesh, why is it so hard to express this? It's been like 7 years, right? Am I right???????????

You came back once again to make ABSOLUTE claims...in CAPITALS!! It would be silly to suggest that your speculation was totally without some level of possibility/probability. But it’s speculation, nonetheless.

[dune_rave]

if its working on the newest Os, then NOT DEAD

[vurt]

AGAIN, for all those who missed the plot, IT DEAD IN DEVELOPMENT.

Sheeesh, why is it so hard to express this? It's been like 7 years, right? Am I right???????????

we have different views on the meaning of death.
when it's a lifeless corpse with crows lecking its eyes. then it's dead.
as it is, the buzzards are circling but, there is uncertainty as to whether they will get a meal.

[whyterabbyt]

Examples of abandoned products:
B3
Pro 53
Spektral delay
Vokator
FM7
Kore player
ELEKTRIK PIANO
etc etc

Thanks for providing a list of products that were abandoned more than ten years ago, so that we know they're not relevant answers to the actual question.

[whyterabbyt]

Lol! you're the one framing the argument, then moving the goalposts, not me.

I framed a question. I framed a question about software. I was not asking about drivers. So which goalposts have I moved when I say I was not asking about drivers.

The attempt to say drivers do not count as software is a weak argument

The attempt to insist that I was asking about anything other than software applications when I asked about software is the weak argument.
Or are you going to keep trying to pretend you're the authority on what I meant when I said 'software'.

[chk071]

The most important question: Why did the OP censor his nickname?

[whyterabbyt]

Oh, look its little perfumer, wading in over his head to have a go again.

BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT YOU MEANT, AND YOU DON'T!

Well, as expected, up to your usual standards of incompetence. Its just a pity for your already laughable credibility that the conversation is about the meaning of my question, and my disagreement with someone else's interpretation of that. ie the other way round from your capitalised little hissy fit.

But hey, never let the facts get in the way of your puerile little vendetta, eh what?

Hey machinesworking, this guy is special, you know what I'm saying?!

I presume he's smart enough to work out that he knows you're saying you want him to mistake your tediously persistent projection and butthurt for some sort of solidarity and insight.

[whyterabbyt]

You have every right to say that you do not think that drivers count as software, and I have every right to say that's ridiculous, but you don't get to determine what I meant when it's clear as day what I meant. You don't win anything by trying to frame the argument, and you certainly aren't convincing me that you're right, you just look like a misguided pedant, that's all.

Im afraid Im not sure how you think Im trying to say what you meant by saying that I didnt mean 'drivers' when I asked you a question about 'software'.
I onlyknow what I meant. So I apologise for wanting to ensure that a question I asked was not misunderstood against the context in which it was asked; that's clearly me at fault there.

And to be honest, whilst Im aware of what you have taken the meaning to be, and have pointed out that its not within the context I used, I was actually pretty sure I havent actually tried to 'determine what you meant' at any point.
Again, then, I apologise, as I seem to have missed how I was doing that, while simultaneously believing I was actually trying to specify what I meant. Mea culpa.

Unfortunately, given this misunderstanding whereby my restating of my meaning has accidently been a synonym for trying to recast yours, I find it hard to work out what Im allegedly trying to win or be right about, because I was still under the impression that I was trying to make clear the contect of the question as I meant it, however foolish that may be.
So, to absolutely be a pedant, however misguided, perhaps its best if I pedantically re-ask my question in a more specific form, since there seems to be some confusion as to what that was, and perhaps we can proceed from there without further confusion.

So:

What software applications, including plugins, but not including drivers, have NI abandoned in the past decade?
What's the evidence that the Guitar Rig software application, including plugins, but not including drivers, is on the way out?
Cheers.

[lessera]

...but the question was is it dead not is it dying...

Isn't that semantics though?

those semantics might seem important when you're the one close to death...

I knew there was a good reason to keep reading this thread!

[mixtur.se]

Examples of abandoned products:
B3
Pro 53
Spektral delay
Vokator
FM7
Kore player
ELEKTRIK PIANO
etc etc

Thanks for providing a list of products that were abandoned more than ten years ago, so that we know they're not relevant answers to the actual question.

Are you saying they provided updates for all of these within the last 10 years?
Many of them was in practice dropped long before it was announced.

Let´s take Vocator for instance, it hasn't been updated in 10 years, and if you look in their forum you can see that people weren't even able to download it anymore in 2009.

They have also dropped several sample packages, like synthetic drums 1, acoustics drums, presets packs for FM7 sounds vol1 etc. The installers doesn´t even work anymore.

I think it´s fair to say that they have dropped products for a long time, and continue to do so.

[Kinh]

I dont know what the hell you jokers are on about