Native Instruments Layoffs?

[dellboy]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

[v1o]

Or it could be that they know a lot more about running successful businesses than musicians, so they will give things the impetus they need based upon demand and profitability. If musicians want the products then it makes sense to develop and update them, but it could be beneficial if those making the decisions don't have any potential conflict of interest if they are musicians themselves and have their own biases.

This. Musicians know sh** about business. How many of them manage big careers without manager or someone outside (or inside) band who is a manager/businessman? Only few. Business require skills and education (knowledge) that musicians not necessary have.

you realize you probably run the chance of offending a lot people here on KvR who happen to be musicians, family people, and very successful business people

It wasn't quite the point I was making either - musicians would of course be great employees for NI, but it would be beneficial to get guidance from others with a strong business background. My point about musicians is that they might be more likely to have 'pet' projects and push them, but if the company needs to focus more on profits then an objective view of the market would be useful.

My point was that to run a company like NI (which is not a wee family business) it's better to have someone skilled in running a business in first place and then (eventually) being a musician at a second place. Not the other way around.

Yeah. I don't think I agree. I think it's more important having someone experienced in running businesses that are on the music industry. If they had hired a bunch of peeps from Yamaha or Roland or Fender.. I would be , okay, let's see where this goes. But hiring someone with a background in travel e commerce industry or ad sales is iffy. But what do I know. I am just another shmo on the internet.

BTW... You are incorrt about musicians knowing nothing about business. Successful musicians that have lasted a long time and had long careers in music industry are very smart and crafty entrepreneur types. Beck, Trent Reznor et la... Much brighter than MBA shmos jumping around with buzz words and far fetched business ideas. The Google AirBNB MBA shmos will just jump somewhere else when it fails... The musicans have nowhere.to jump ship to.. the business and industry is them. It's their livelyhood.

The ousted Gibson guitars former CEO spent his entire career at Gibson. He ran the company since 1986. I would not hire the guy to run another music company.

Beck and Trent Reznor might be very intelligent people. But they might not have the necessary chops to manage large numbers of people. That's a wholly different ball game. You may be intelligent but without the earned life experience of managing large teams of highly competitive sharks you will struggle. I would not be surprised if Beck was an introvert, a lot of musicians are.

[Hink]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

viewtopic.php?p=7518634#p7518634

the comment was musicians know shit about business

[Forgotten]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

I don't think so - I get what Hink is saying and it doesn't seem like a strawman to me.

If you assume that everyone with a particular skillset is going to be bad at a particular task outside of their skillset, you may as well suggest it of any skillset, whether that's music, engineering or any other skill.

[v1o]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

I don't think so - I get what Hink is saying and it doesn't seem like a strawman to me.

If you assume that everyone with a particular skillset is going to be bad at a particular task outside of their skillset, you may as well suggest it of any skillset, whether that's music, engineering or any other skill.

Just how many skillsets can one be good at? Can you be a great golfer, baker, sculptor, pianist, gardener and engineer?

[Hink]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

I don't think so - I get what Hink is saying and it doesn't seem like a strawman to me.

If you assume that everyone with a particular skillset is going to be bad at a particular task outside of their skillset, you may as well suggest it of any skillset, whether that's music, engineering or any other skill.

the quote from NI and their founders I found said "We're three engineers and musicians", that's where engineer came from... I found something that could support the opposition of my point, quoted it and stated imo why it didn't support the opposition of my point. Context

[Hink]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

I don't think so - I get what Hink is saying and it doesn't seem like a strawman to me.

If you assume that everyone with a particular skillset is going to be bad at a particular task outside of their skillset, you may as well suggest it of any skillset, whether that's music, engineering or any other skill.

Just many skillsets can one be good at? Can you be a great golfer, baker, sculptor, pianist, gardener and engineer?

do you have a limit?

or

not as many as one can be bad at

multiple choice

[vurt]

but to assume that means all musicians are bad at business, is to assume all engineers are too

I am not aware that anyone in this thread has suggested this.

It is a strawman argument.

I don't think so - I get what Hink is saying and it doesn't seem like a strawman to me.

If you assume that everyone with a particular skillset is going to be bad at a particular task outside of their skillset, you may as well suggest it of any skillset, whether that's music, engineering or any other skill.

Just how many skillsets can one be good at? Can you be a great golfer, baker, sculptor, pianist, gardener and engineer?

brian blessed, actor, orator, boxer, mountaineer, puncher of polar bears.
aleister crowley, sorcerer, spy, mountaineer, chef, lover, painter, junkie

[dellboy]

The argument about whether a musician can become a successful business person is mute in the context of a thread where two music centric individuals Stephan Schmitt and Volker Hinz began Native Instruments and built it into a huge musical goliath.

They appear to have made a mistake in borrowing a large sum of cash which was offered to them and which had long strings attatched.

The end result being that non-musicians are now steering the ocean liner.

[vurt]

The argument about whether a musician can become a successful business person is mute in the context of a thread where two music centric individuals Stephan Schmitt and Volker Hinz began Native Instruments and built it into a huge musical goliath.

They appear to have made a mistake in borrowing a large sum of cash which was offered to them and which had long strings attatched.

The end result being that non-musicians are now steering the ocean liner.

what about the positives.

all air bnb affiliates to be fitted with a komplete daw including kontrollers.

every uber driver to be a reaktor programmer so you can pick up hints and tips on your commute.

[Hink]

a cool quote from Daniel Haver in the interview I linked to

The biggest moment for sure was when we could prove to the world that a software instrument is a real instrument. Because when I started, everyone said, “That’s toy-ish. This is a computer instrument sound.” Really this moment: we are at the NAMM show in 1999. We have the B4 Organ—an emulation of the Hammond organ we called B4. And Stevie Wonder comes by. He puts on the headphones and he says, “Wow. That sounds like the real thing.” That was the moment.

I was working at MARs music then and I remember this time as well, though then I had very little knowledge of computers. I was in the recording, pro audio/dj, and keyboard dept, the rep came in from whoever repped them then with the B4 (HD recording was more my thing, I ran clinics with various HD machines weekly). My manager was an amazing keyboard player, he had a killer studio with a B3 and he was blown away, he played it for a very long time and we just hung and watched him get down (mars wasn't commission, we were there to sell the gear by demonstration so we were paid to goof off)...but there was still latency then with midi into a computer.

About a year later I hit the lottery daily numbers for 3,800 bux (playing al bundy's house number) and bought my first computer with cakewalk home studio 9, my first vsti was indeed B4.

[digitalboytn]

The suited guys they have bought in are focused 100% on making money. Thats what they love doing, and they do it well.

It obviously suits them

The argument about whether a musician can become a successful business person is mute in the context of a thread where two music centric individuals Stephan Schmitt and Volker Hinz began Native Instruments and built it into a huge musical goliath.

They appear to have made a mistake in borrowing a large sum of cash which was offered to them and which had long strings attatched.

The end result being that non-musicians are now steering the ocean liner.

You always have to watch out for those strings...

Only time will tell if the non musicians are steering the ocean liner towards the rocks...

The funny thing is that the two guys who are in kontrol now,have also borrowed a rather large sum of money which is sure to have some stringent conditions attached to it..

Debt can be a lifeline,but it doesn't take an MBA in a suit to know,that if you fail to service the debt obligations, then that lifeline will often become a death sentence...

There are pretty tough trading conditions out there right now and the head winds are forecast to strengthen

[vurt]

before what?

[dellboy]

before what?

vurtaggedon.

[digitalboytn]

BTW...I think that the NI B4 II organ was a killer product...

That was a golden time for NI and that product (along with a few other inspiring goodies they had back then) was a winner...

The later sampled organ BS they released for Kontakt sounded dead in comparison...

I used it for years and it was the last x86 plugin I retired,but only when Blue 3 v2 was released...