need help / linplug back up !

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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hivkorn
KVRAF
3115 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Post Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:57 am

This situation make me think that : what if i build a website with the VST that 'don t exist anymore', i mean latest installer but NO serial, i mean online bck up ? Is this legal to provide installer of out of business dev ?

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BlackWinny
KVRAF
3909 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:39 am

All the lawyers have different points of view about that. Even in a same country. And even the judges themselves have all the possible and imaginary interpretations on this.

It is even on this situation that the Wayback Machine exists since 1999 (and the scanners of the Wayback Machine even began to work in 1994) and without any trouble from the lawyers.

Even in Europe the situation is the same. What must be precisely protected ? Obviously it is the license to use. An installer is not the product, it is only the functional part of the product. The other part is the license, and a product is the addition of both: the functional part PLUS the license. If both are published, then the product is published, because the license gives the additional information absolutely required to use the product. And it is this which is (with reason) forbidden, because it gives anyone the ability to use the product while the license to use is strictly personal. The only thing which is strictly personal, for the law, is the license to use, not the installers themselves.

Another point is also very often discussed in the courts, it is "what happens when a company dies ?". When a license is made it is a contract between a provider and a customer. A contract lives as long as both live (except when the contract is for a shorter duration). In a license, the provider ensures the user that the product works for a peaceful usage, meaning as it is claimed to work, and issues must be addressed to respect the declarations which were made when describing the product. In counterpart the user ensures the provider that the product will be used exclusively by the person(s) explicitly named in the contract. So: the installer (even if it contains the functional part of the final product) can be shared as long as it is not enough to use the product if an information is required to unlock the product to make it work.

In addition, generally the provider is in right to forbid the public diffusion of the installer as long as himself (provider) is able to make it available. But when the provider dies (as company, not as physical person) or is no longer able to keep the installer available, anybody can't forbid anyone to get a backup of the installer if he needs it in order to be able to keep on using the product, because even a personal backup can be lost by any reason.

What MUST be protected is the licenses to use. The number of these licenses to use (meaning the rights to use by someONE) is an exact number at any time, even after the death of the provider (the company). But an installer is not enough to use the product if the product requires an additional information (strictly personal). It is the reason why the courts always give the rights to users to give access to the installers to other users as long as it is not enough to give access to the product (meaning the use of the product), and it is the reason why the courts always give the rights to the providers when the users share... their license to use!

And this in Europe as well as in the USA.

In conclusion :
- Share the installers is not forbidden.
- Share a personal license is strictly forbidden. So of course share a product (the installer PLUS the license) is strictly forbidden as well.
- And it is not needed to say that of course cracking a product (so that the additional information becomes useless to use the product) is also strictly forbidden.
Last edited by BlackWinny on Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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CrystalWizard
KVRian
881 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:17 pm

Best practice is two external HD backups, one not on your premises.
gadgets an gizmos...make noise
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hivkorn
KVRAF
3115 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:03 pm

Thx for all this info Blackwinny, i think i will build a site with only latest version. No cracked version, i will begin with linplug but i d really like to have more installer from differents other brands.
I think it will help a lot of people with hd crash.

macmuse
KVRist
481 posts since 23 Jun, 2004

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:46 am

BlackWinny wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:39 am

In conclusion :
- Share the installers is not forbidden.
- Share a personal license is strictly forbidden. So of course share a product (the installer PLUS the license) is strictly forbidden as well.
- And it is not needed to say that of course cracking a product (so that the additional information becomes useless to use the product) is also strictly forbidden.
And I will add that in cases (such as Camel Audio) where the installer contains the personal information and license of the buyer, that installer is not an installer one could share.

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BlackWinny
KVRAF
3909 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:47 am

macmuse wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:46 am
BlackWinny wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:39 am

In conclusion :
- Share the installers is not forbidden.
- Share a personal license is strictly forbidden. So of course share a product (the installer PLUS the license) is strictly forbidden as well.
- And it is not needed to say that of course cracking a product (so that the additional information becomes useless to use the product) is also strictly forbidden.
And I will add that in cases (such as Camel Audio) where the installer contains the personal information and license of the buyer, that installer is not an installer one could share.
Yes, as it was implicitly said in my explanations.
:)
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

macmuse
KVRist
481 posts since 23 Jun, 2004

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:49 am

Yep, you covered it well. :)

It's surprising though how many times I've seen guys ask for CA on various sites, and people share their installer. Either they don't know or ??

So that's why I mentioned it.

User avatar
hivkorn
KVRAF
3115 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:21 am

I was thinking of this question today, i just think that i will not share this plugins. I will respect the law concerning the licence even for a "dead brand". At this time i only have linplug plugins installers for osx to share but i m open to share other brand and other OS format if they have a serial protection.

User avatar
BlackWinny
KVRAF
3909 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Re: need help / linplug back up !

Post Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:05 am

Anyway I think that even the installers (as I said nothing forbid to share them as long as the licenses, meaning essentially the keys to unlock, are not shared) should be shared only in private, never in public places.

Because sharing these installers in public places gives opportunities to the hackers to get installers they wouldn't already have, day after day. I know that they can of course get these installers directly from the providers websites when these websites are alive... but for the hackers the question is not to know if the product and the provider are alive or not, for the hackers the hacking is simply a sport and a totally anarchist behavior having as only goal to destroy any market making the world turn.

So, sharing installers in private as long as it is only installers and not keys nor licenses, these latter being exclusively private is perfectly allowed to come in help to SOMEONE who lost his own installers for example... but sharing publicly installers as if it was a kind of "supermarket of installers" should be avoided in order to not feed the crackers.

Private sharing of these installers to help other users on demand, yes.
But public sharing to create a kind of self-service, no.

Except possibly for totally freeware items (and I insist on "possibly" because I think that it should be done only when the provider discontinued the item or isn't any more able to provide it). And in these cases the user must be aware that there can't be any support about bugs, the product being discontinued.

The essential thing to keep in mind is the question "Do I harm, jeopardize, prejudice (or risk to I harm, jeopardize, prejudice) the creator/provider ?" If the answer is yes, then the good behavior is to refrain.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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