hey -
i'm in the process of recording a live-played V-Drum midi drum track to an audio track -
any advice on how many decibels louder do you guys usually mix your snare over your kick drum for a tight, punchy radio-style, pop-soundingdrum mix?
what i mean is, if my kick drum is peaking at say, +4db on my behringer mixer, and the mixer goes up to +10db and clips anything over that, at what db peak would YOU balance the snaredrum? i like my snares a little louder than the kick usually and right now, my snare is hitting mostly at +7db and occasionally touching the +10db lights -
does that sound right to anyone?
that the snare drum would be around 3-5 decibels louder than the kick drum?
can anyone offer any help, or opinions on this ?
ANY discussion is welcome!
JB
kick + snare mixing question - PLEASE ADVISE!
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- KVRist
- 329 posts since 8 May, 2002 from Sun Valley. California
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- KVRAF
- 1682 posts since 13 Oct, 2003 from Oulu, Finland
It depends completely on the snare drum sound. Even with "punchy-radio-style-pop-soundingdrum-mix" it varies a lot. Sometimes snare can be as loud as the kick drum (rare situation) and sometimes it can be even -20dB (again rare situation)... With dancefloor stuff it's usually much lower than the kick drum. With metal it can be higher sometimes. With regular pop... Who knows?
There's no answer but "listen to your mix and trust your ears". Mixing isn't a precise science. It's more like an art. Never look at the peak meters while mixing, except to check that nothing is clipping.
BTW: I recommend reading "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski. It's a fabulous book about mixing. It starts from the basic stuff and goes through various neat techniques the top mixing engineers in the world have invented. There are lots of interviews with those mixing engineers also.
There's no answer but "listen to your mix and trust your ears". Mixing isn't a precise science. It's more like an art. Never look at the peak meters while mixing, except to check that nothing is clipping.
BTW: I recommend reading "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski. It's a fabulous book about mixing. It starts from the basic stuff and goes through various neat techniques the top mixing engineers in the world have invented. There are lots of interviews with those mixing engineers also.
Last edited by Kraku on Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Misspellers of the world, unit!
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- KVRist
- 111 posts since 31 Jul, 2004 from NEUK
it seems like you want the final sound in your unfinished track, which isn't really possible.
what I mean is, once your track is mixed down (with dynamics applied to the drums, ie compression or limiting or both), then it will be mastered (or at least a commercial release will be, ie one thats been signed) which means compression will be applied again.
and finall, when it gets played on the radio, some REALLY brutal dynamics will be applied.
so you want radio style drums in an unfinished track, which, in my opinion, isn't possible.
but having said that, there are treatments you can apply to get fat drums - and I'm still learning how to apply them sucessfully every time. but you can find out for yourself at places like the soundonsound forums and prosoundweb forums. if you research it you'll find loads of techniques on how to get your drums fat n' punchy. but remember that radio does stuff to your mixes that you probably couldn't do (because of the specialist dynamics processors that broadcast engineers use).
i know i didn't really help you with this, but at least you know why you probably won't get your drums sounding identical to radio...
what I mean is, once your track is mixed down (with dynamics applied to the drums, ie compression or limiting or both), then it will be mastered (or at least a commercial release will be, ie one thats been signed) which means compression will be applied again.
and finall, when it gets played on the radio, some REALLY brutal dynamics will be applied.
so you want radio style drums in an unfinished track, which, in my opinion, isn't possible.
but having said that, there are treatments you can apply to get fat drums - and I'm still learning how to apply them sucessfully every time. but you can find out for yourself at places like the soundonsound forums and prosoundweb forums. if you research it you'll find loads of techniques on how to get your drums fat n' punchy. but remember that radio does stuff to your mixes that you probably couldn't do (because of the specialist dynamics processors that broadcast engineers use).
i know i didn't really help you with this, but at least you know why you probably won't get your drums sounding identical to radio...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 329 posts since 8 May, 2002 from Sun Valley. California
thanks guys -
i've got it sounding pretty darn even,
i was just hoping that there was maybe a black and white answer -
of course with music there pretty much never is -
thanks!
JB
i've got it sounding pretty darn even,
i was just hoping that there was maybe a black and white answer -
of course with music there pretty much never is -
thanks!
JB
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neverwhere2012 neverwhere2012 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=23348
- KVRist
- 420 posts since 30 Apr, 2004 from grand rapids, michigan
as far as your question goes, you adjust level of kick and snare in the mix until it sounds right to your ears. however, to get a super fat, "LA" style snare sound, (you may not need to worry about these techniques as it's V-Drums and i'm sure the snare sound you want is in there) you want to boost the snare to taste at around 100 Hz and 10kHz. highpass filter at 100 Hz and lowpass at 10kHz. scoop a bit of the middle frequencies if needed, depends on if you want to boost a lot of EQ subtractively too. take a compressor that will handle peaks well that is fairly smooth, or alternately a good 1176 emulation for grittiness and set the attack very fast, like 3 ms or less and the release around 40 - 100 ms. ratio of at least 10:1.
all of this stems from the way they used to EQ big rock/pop snare. they would run it through a Pultec Eq and crank 100 Hz and 10 kHz all the way up and squash the holy hell out of it with an 1176 or whatever. if you start out with the proper snare drum sound and have decent EQ/compression available this should leave you with a snare drum that sounds like the hammer of god. for kick drum, that's another story. i can tell you how to create the ultra heavy metal kick sound all the kids are whining for these days, but i doubt that's what you want. i believe it was put best in a recent issue of Tape Op "30 Hz, we like to call this 'Balls'. want more weight in that kick? turn up some 'Balls'".
good luck.
all of this stems from the way they used to EQ big rock/pop snare. they would run it through a Pultec Eq and crank 100 Hz and 10 kHz all the way up and squash the holy hell out of it with an 1176 or whatever. if you start out with the proper snare drum sound and have decent EQ/compression available this should leave you with a snare drum that sounds like the hammer of god. for kick drum, that's another story. i can tell you how to create the ultra heavy metal kick sound all the kids are whining for these days, but i doubt that's what you want. i believe it was put best in a recent issue of Tape Op "30 Hz, we like to call this 'Balls'. want more weight in that kick? turn up some 'Balls'".
good luck.