Unfiltered Audio Lion

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Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm From what I can tell, it's not internal distortion but that the sine isn't entirely clean when it comes out of the generator. It may well be an artefact of the way it's implemented. My guess is that the simple sine uses the same core generator as the one in The Forms – but ability to move between triangle and sine means that the sine is never entirely "clean". My guess is that UA wanted it to be like an analogue synth where the waveforms are approximations to the supposedly ideal shapes.
The Simple Sine engine uses the same (ideal) sine generator as The Forms, but we stripped out the rest of the code to make it more efficient when using that engine.

The main thing contributing to the distortion is the output limiting waveshaper, which we picked because we like the way that it sounds. You're right in that we weren't going for a "pure" sound at all, as that doesn't interest us much, but we are considering adding an option to remove the output limiter.

Here's a quote I love from the Make Noise DPO manual:
"The DPO is a 100% analog, vintage voiced musical instrument and is not suitable for laboratory use."

In general, if you like the way it sounds, don't agonize over how the waveforms look on an o-scope or spectrogram.

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thelizard wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:26 pm The main thing contributing to the distortion is the output limiting waveshaper, which we picked because we like the way that it sounds. You're right in that we weren't going for a "pure" sound at all, as that doesn't interest us much, but we are considering adding an option to remove the output limiter
Please do ...

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> adding an option to remove the output limiter

yes please please please - pretty please :-)

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thelizard wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:26 pm
Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm From what I can tell, it's not internal distortion but that the sine isn't entirely clean when it comes out of the generator. It may well be an artefact of the way it's implemented. My guess is that the simple sine uses the same core generator as the one in The Forms – but ability to move between triangle and sine means that the sine is never entirely "clean". My guess is that UA wanted it to be like an analogue synth where the waveforms are approximations to the supposedly ideal shapes.
The main thing contributing to the distortion is the output limiting waveshaper, which we picked because we like the way that it sounds. You're right in that we weren't going for a "pure" sound at all, as that doesn't interest us much, but we are considering adding an option to remove the output limiter.

Here's a quote I love from the Make Noise DPO manual:
"The DPO is a 100% analog, vintage voiced musical instrument and is not suitable for laboratory use."

In general, if you like the way it sounds, don't agonize over how the waveforms look on an o-scope or spectrogram.
Ahh, yeah I thought there might be a waveshaper there. I'm mostly noticing just because I'm enjoying using the supersine oscillators in conjunction with the exotic mixer modes for morphing between crazy complex and super clean sounds, you really need to drop the output for maximum contrast. I wonder if this is also a contributor to the posts a few pages back where someone mentioned they couldn't get a 'snappy' pluck - the transient being softened by the waveshaper. It'd definitely be nice if this could be bypassed, for the benefit of clean sounds and 'spiky' transients or spiky textures with looping envelope tricks. There is most of a Dent in the Byome row, after all.

Incidentally, I suspect a lot of the complains about 'aliasing' are down to people seeing distortion on the scope. I've certainly heard a lot of distortion, but can't say I've heard audible aliasing in use.

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cron wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:38 pm
[…] I've certainly heard a lot of distortion, but can't say I've heard audible aliasing in use.

well,
try this:

OSC1 = simple Sine
Q = off
Tune = +5.8 st

play at midi note C8 (MIDI Input)
has a fundamental at around 16kHz and a visible and audible (!) foldback at around 1kHz (and 3.1 kHz)
(attention: that's a very high, unpleasant tone)

mixer: Linear XFade
OSC1 = 100%
output gain = 0 dB

move the OSC1 Tune slightly up
and you will hear the foldback going down
which can't barely considered as being "musical"

apply a simple LFO
AMP 16%, FREQ=0.242
connect it's output to OSC1-TUNE

and you'll hear happy aliasing foldback in the well hearable range

and you can even emphasize it by
engaging Saturation
gain=5x, Distortion, Mix=100%


the 1k foldback is proudly audible


now the funny part:
switching to any of the oversamplig rates (2x, 4x, 8x) has no effect whatsoever
which kind of puzzles me

p.s.: my examples are done in 48kHz samplingrate - other samplerates might have different values...

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thelizard wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:26 pm ...but we are considering adding an option to remove the output limiter.
Yes please!

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exmatproton wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:00 pm
thelizard wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:26 pm ...but we are considering adding an option to remove the output limiter.
Yes please!
Another vote for it.
Seems to be a pretty popular request :hyper:

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amwk wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:48 am
RichN wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:27 pm Sorry if I have missed something obvious, but isn't it possible to set a default size for the GUI? Every time I load Lion (in Bitwig by the way, on MacOS Mojave) it defaults to it's smallest size. So I have to drag it to a larger size and press the wide button every time. Rather annoying.
In Bitwig for every instrument or plugin you can set your own default preset(s).
Go to the "Mix Panel Layout", right click on the vertical bar on the left side of an instrument or plugin (where the name is displayed) and then a menu pops that has as its last entry "Save as Default Preset".
Click on that and you are done.
It took me a while to find that feature but since then it has helped me a lot.
I just tried it with saving LION in the wide mode as default preset and it works.
Thanks, that solved it!! That's a useful feature of Bitwig indeed. Still weird that the plugin doesn't have this option natively.

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how do I load the .Tun file?

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muki wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:44 pm now the funny part:
switching to any of the oversamplig rates (2x, 4x, 8x) has no effect whatsoever
which kind of puzzles me
I have the same experience with the oversampling. It doesn't change anything. Aliasing is still there. And audible

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teddybro wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:05 pm how do I load the .Tun file?
on the mac you put your .tun file into this folder:

~/Library/Audio/Presets/Unfiltered Audio Tunings/

wishlist:
would be great if a selected tuning could be locked (otional)

so that changing presets does not automatically reset tuning

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It's C: ProgramData\UnfilteredAudio\Tunings\ if you're on PC ...

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muki wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:02 pm
teddybro wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:05 pm how do I load the .Tun file?
on the mac you put your .tun file into this folder:

~/Library/Audio/Presets/Unfiltered Audio Tunings/

wishlist:
would be great if a selected tuning could be locked (otional)

so that changing presets does not automatically reset tuning
thecontrolcentre wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:08 pm It's C: ProgramData\UnfilteredAudio\Tunings\ if you're on PC ...
thanks guys!
on my Mac, It doesn't have the Unfiltered Audio Tunings folder inside the presets folder. Is it advisable to make one? did I miss to click a user preset option during installation?

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teddybro wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:20 pm
muki wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:02 pm
teddybro wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:05 pm how do I load the .Tun file?
on the mac you put your .tun file into this folder:

~/Library/Audio/Presets/Unfiltered Audio Tunings/

wishlist:
would be great if a selected tuning could be locked (otional)

so that changing presets does not automatically reset tuning
thecontrolcentre wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:08 pm It's C: ProgramData\UnfilteredAudio\Tunings\ if you're on PC ...
thanks guys!
on my Mac, It doesn't have the Unfiltered Audio Tunings folder inside the presets folder. Is it advisable to make one? did I miss to click a user preset option during installation?
Hmmm, it should have created one automatically when opening LION.

One thing to note is that Unfiltered Audio Tunings is a separate folder from Unfiltered Audio LION so that if/when we create another instrument, they can share the same folders.

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teddybro wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:20 pm Is it advisable to make one? did I miss to click a user preset option during installation?
give it a try...
shouldn't harm methinks...

you need to reload lion in your daw to see the newly added user-tun files

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