Plek'ing: Worth it?

[The Noodlist]

Conversation does sometimes hit on other related topics........

[lfm]

Derailing a bit aren't we? From Plek's worth to alternative tailpieces for Gibsons and whatever, wraparound.

Every thread is like reading the morning paper, isn't it.
You never know what you'll find.

Too much moderation kills forums, no fun to hang around.

[codec_spurt]

My LP was plek'd but it's got 9's on it.

Who the hell puts 9's on a Gibson LP? It's like a toy.

Whatever, as soon as I can get that jack socket fixed, oh and the 3-way switch as well, we'll be good to go.

Plek'ing is all well and good, but if you have a guitar that is unusable, it's pretty academic.


Buzz buzz, conk buzz, Buzz....

Gonna try putting 10's on it when I get those points of failure worked out.


Some guitars, the frets just level anyway if you play them enough.

[Mats Eriksson]

Plek'ing is all well and good, but if you have a guitar that is unusable, it's pretty academic.

Yes, yes, and yes. One can't polish a turd. Said by the company themselves. If a guitar is already playing well the difference is so subtle that it is basically neglible. And that if you're good with your luthier or repairman at the moment, then there's absolutely no incentive for it at all. Suggesting the very skilled and experienced luthiers can do the same accurate trick on the frets. However, longer lead time and at greater cost.

[Hink]

unless one is good at such things themselves

[codec_spurt]

unless one is good at such things themselves

Well, I won't be pleking that's for sure. But it's probably going to be me that gets my soldering iron out and fixes up the jack and the 3-way. Dawsons, what a bunch of jokers. I sent my guitar in to them with a bit of buzz, they sent it back totally unusable with an unasked for setup as well.

Worst guitar company in the UK. No feedback, no communication. Almost missed the package.

I can solder ok. Used to do all my leads way back. I'll crack open my Gibson and get her going again.

Dawsons employee: "Oh, it's quite common and not unusual at all to have a guitar where the jack cuts out and it is not playable, 3-way switch as well..."

Me?

It's only a guitar, but this one is special to me.

I'll never forgive Dawsons for 'setting it up properly' for me as well, unasked. They lied about some other stuff too, but we won't get in to that here. Tossers.

[The Noodlist]

Dawsons employee: "Oh, it's quite common and not unusual at all to have a guitar where the jack cuts out and it is not playable, 3-way switch as well..."

On a high end guitar, I doubt it. I'd also be unimpressed.

Not had one issue with a 15yr old budget Tokai Love Rock (MIK), was my main gigging guitar at one point. The second guitar purchased from new in 30 yrs, the fist was when I started learning in the late 1980's, a Marlin Sidewinder Strat, oh the screech.

[Mats Eriksson]

Dawsons? Luckiy i live in Sweden. It seems that the world is full of "these goes to eleven" people even the luthier side, and repairmen side. That Guitar Center people had that already we knew from the start.

I have left in my strat that I used for old time stuff, strung it with spun thirds and 012 and wanted just a new nut. The trem was set to float. I asked ONLY for a new nut, but the *ucker decked the trem, and intonated it wrong, brought on a new fresh set of 010 strings, roundwound at that, and whatever. I do got a refund though. Since I could walk into this shop and not send it.

[reggie1979]

unless one is good at such things themselves

Hink, how many of THEM do you think there are?

It's been in my experience that there are:

-some dummies who think they can, and CAN'T.
-some people who know what to do (but live in obscure area you don't have immd. access to )
-live an area where there is something but it's not really good.

In other words, it's not that simple. I wish it was. But I've had more instruments RUINED by so-called experts than fixed.

I can't level frets, but the plex CAN. If I knew someone here that could do it, I'd probably pay!

[Hink]

unless one is good at such things themselves

Hink, how many of THEM do you think there are?

It's been in my experience that there are:

-some dummies who think they can, and CAN'T.
-some people who know what to do (but live in obscure area you don't have immd. access to )
-live an area where there is something but it's not really good.

In other words, it's not that simple. I wish it was. But I've had more instruments RUINED by so-called experts than fixed.

I can't level frets, but the plex CAN. If I knew someone here that could do it, I'd probably pay!

well, in this case I am talking about myself and the first music store I worked at I made the mistake of letting them know this skill I have and they exploited me. (total bs to be on commission for sales and be expected to work on guitars). Here's the thing, though I didnt really ever work in the trade I went to school for four years to be a certified machinist/tool and die maker (and got my degree, just went from school right into the service). I was raised by engineers and diy is just in my blood. You might not know this but KvR DIY forum was started on my suggestion after I built a 12/11 hammered dulcimer in the living room of my apartment and posted the progress in everything else.

I do have to admit I made mistakes, but on my stuff. For instance when I was 12 I took my first electric guitar completely 100% apart the first evening I had it ( ithnk we bought it around 7:00 and when I went to bed it was 100% apart). Nothing new for me as a kid though, my stepfather use to see appliances on the streets for pick up because they were broken and bring them home for me to take apart...you see my parents kinda got tired of me taking everything apart in the house and only getting some of it back together

Anyhow, for me it's like changing a tire. I think every guitarist should have the tools and skills to do a basic set up. I know people get scared of truss rods but really nature is already doing what they are afraid to do..we just have to tweak it...it's just a guitar

[lfm]

Anyhow, for me it's like changing a tire. I think every guitarist should have the tools and skills to do a basic set up. I know people get scared of truss rods but really nature is already doing what they are afraid to do..we just have to tweak it...it's just a guitar

Too many rely on YT vids because it's free - but there is a lot of crap as well. Very little skills needed to make and post a video these days.

To release a book, a publisher is examining and value it - and it's probably more reliable than YT in general.

Once you know what you look for - YT can be great.

So look for books, maybe Dan Erlewine's "How to make your electric guitar play great" or similar. He was on Guitar Player magazine as well and "Guitar Player's Repair Guide" is good to. Some overlap with his "how to...", but still worth getting.

Also give common setups and what you can expect from various guitar brands and models.

So after some experience anything but a neck reset on acoustics is comfortable to me. Maybe Taylor acoustics which can be done in 15 minutes, but Martin is really heavy on equipment and experience too to get it right.

What I learned just in the more recent years about acoustics was to pay more attention to humidity in room if guitar is in a stand, and in case if there. A simple weather station with wireless satelites let's you know on a display how condition inside guitar is.

If you feel action is silly high it probably needs more moist rather than sanding down saddle or change truss rod. Relative humidity is a bitch in my view, since it tells about weather and how much moist air can hold at various temperatures - not the same as wood. So I keep guitar well over 60% RH to be sure guitar is ok.

So learn a bit about absolute humidity is my tip - which is how much water air holds disregarding temperature. This is what wood seek equilibrium to.

Relative humidity is just which percentage of max that air can hold at a certain temperature. What matter is how much water there is - not how much it max can hold at that temperature.

Wood in guitar does not care that air can hold 18g/m3 water at 20 degree C, or 24g/m3 at 25 degree C.(m3 here is cubic meters, power of 3). This for outdoor. Depending on kind of heating indoors it may be different.

If temp is 20 degree C, and RH says 50% air holds 9g/m3(again approx. outdoor).

This makes more sense to me and in my experience better too. Keeping guitar at RH 45-55% was not enough for my guitars, at the temperatures I have in winter(sept-march) about 18-22 degree C each 24 hours. Sending it to Martin Service Center for neck reset - they said it was on the virge of dry and just moist it up to 72% and it was fine. So kept it over 60% RH after that and it's been fine since.

Depending on climate it can coincidently be right with 45-55% RH - but don't count on it. How much water there is - is what matters.

[Jafo]

Basic setups and changing tires... Couldn't agree more. It ain't rocket surgery, and even if you're bad at it, chances are it'll still be an improvement.

Dan Erlewine... I approve!

Higher strings... Yeah, some people find it makes them play more aggressively, but for me, it's partially that I bend strings a lot and find that getting some meat under the strings lets me control the bend better. (Ok, it's mostly that I'm dirt-poor: all my guitars are squirrely second-hand crap and I can afford neither a fret job nor a basic set of tools to do one. )

Archtop-style tailpieces... Love 'em! I also love the twang of standard styles, but there's just something beautiful and warm about these. Not as random or as clumsy as a tremolo block; an elegant bridge for a more civilized age. Oddly enough, I even liked an archtop bridge on my Strat knockoff.

(The Ry Cooder Strat bridge trick is another great option: remove the bridge saddles, carve a bridge out of some hardwood, and feed the strings through the hole where the bridge saddles were. Completely different feel, mellower and very bendy.)

[reggie1979]

As far as "diy" ing is concerned, yes. You should have some basic skills. Plecking is so much more advanced than that. I'm not a luthier (why is that coming up as bad spelling? ) and I can't do fret leveling. Er, well, I don't know how and w/o spending a fortune and not having anything to "learn" with .... not going to happen.

I can do about anything from rounding frets to changing electronics, etc. But Plecking is a whole different deal. I don't need super low action on guitars and mine are all terrific w/o it. Bass is different (did I mention that???? ) I want the LOWEST POSSIBLE ACTION on a bass. I mean, strings rattling off the fret low action. I want to plunk, and slap and groove, you can't get it low enough for me

[Hink]

As far as "diy" ing is concerned, yes. You should have some basic skills. Plecking is so much more advanced than that. I'm not a luthier (why is that coming up as bad spelling? ) and I can't do fret leveling.

is it though? Or is really just the latest must have? See here's the thing, I hear you but I totally disagree, but only for me. At that one store I will say I was a luthier (btw you spelled it right ) because I got paid to do it, at every store when I sold a guitar I set it up, it was expected (except MARs because I was not selling guitars, and later I introduced them to an amazing luthier friend of mine).

I wont call myself that now, actually I'd raise my level beyond that and say I am a craftsman and I take extreme pride in what I do. Also these days I dont want to ever work on anyone elses guitars because tbh I dont want to, so when I set up a guitar it's set up for me...not for anyone else, but for my tastes...sorry I can expect that from a machine (and this is a machinist saying that).

That store where I did do repairs, some kids came in with parts for a strat (Warmoth body and neck, hardware, three cheap single coils, everything). I bought the guitar cheap off of them, my boss hit the roof. I put it together, it has an original wizard profile for the neck and it played like a dream. My boss said it wouldn't sell and he told me if it didn't I bought it, that was 1999.



I actually took that pic Wednesday (posted it on fb), that's the same guitar (my boss was right, thankfully) but obviously I updated a few things like pups and electronics. No buzz to this date (20 years), frets have been dressed with my fret file only when needed but to my taste and that guitar is still by far my favorite guitar I have ever owned and I got my first guitar in 1971. It plays great for me because I keep it that way for me, I'm not saying you would love it or even like it but that doesn't matter (no offense intended) because I am the only one who is gonna play it, people might try it but that's it.

I have tried to figure what that guitar cost me, I paid under 100 dollars to the kids, I had one EMG (the 81 in the bridge, in fact that pup is over 30 years old), bought the other for around 100 (remember I got discounts and gave myself trades ). I built an Alembic Stratoblaster pre-amp clone (the knob where the tone should be and the switch on the neck side), that cost under 20 bux (the kit without the enclosure is inexpensive at GGG)...I wouldn't sell it. (of course it would not be worth selling without a brand name)

I think that Plek machines came out for manufacturers and people decided that it might make a good business too, but honestly I am not sure (and I could be wrong) that it's a good idea for used guitars at all. I would not ever let a machine touch that neck on my Warmoth, trust me...machines only do what they are told to do, sometimes we have be more creative in our approach...sure there might be an issue that a plek would fix, but that doesn't mean one couldn't do the same thing by hand and with less material removed and so on.

There are things I wont touch on guitars, I would not attempt to repair a hole in a nice acoustic for instance, I do have the tools and to buy them for one repair would not be cost effective. So again I hear your point, I just dont agree that the plek is the answer in this case. I think a guitar that has been through a plek machine new is a really good idea for consistency.

Of course your experiences will likely differ from mine so please dont go taking files to your neck if you are unsure

[Mats Eriksson]

I find that the recent decades have shown that the old process and agreed methods of - say - fret levelling, sanding, filing crowning, but as well as other set up things may be derived from very old "standards" and design of guitars. The old methods are based on acoustic guitars and seemed to apply for solid body electrics too. Yes, Dan Erlewine even, has taken some flak for some of his recommendations.

Say, one thing that hasn't really got anything to do with Plek, or fret levellng, but say the following, which definitly contradictory. On all sites, even Fender, GIbson, most other luthiers the recommendation when to do long time storage of ANY guitar they say:

1. Slack the strings before mothballing your guitar. So much that there isn't any tension on them. I e equal tension to taking them off. I mean this is NOT transportation mode, storage mode only.

2. When changing strings, change one at a time, don't take off all strings at once. Now, this may seem shady and elusive, but everyones incentive and explanation for it, is that it may wreak havoc on relief, and may set the neck askew so it can't be remedied.



I've face many luthiers, repairmen with the above, but then they'll ADD something else to it, like "well, you have to adjust truss rod", but but if the guitars hasn't got any adjustable truss rod then? There are quite many of those, especially classical guitars, and quite a lot of the dreadnought acoustics from Martin et al. They all remain silent, and coy and stumped for a few seconds, like Nigel Tufnel in Spinal Tap, and then replies just with a "These one goes to eleven..." . Sort of.

My thinking is that if you have a guitar that can't stand either prolonged times of being tuned up to pitch no matter what, or having all strings off fo maintenance issues, then sell your guitar or start using it as a doorstop! It's not worth owning, playing, having. Most of these so called operations are based on old archtop guitars that if you take all strings off, the floating bridge may drop out, as well as the nut, which wasn't glued. And those that hasn't got ANY truss rod (adjustable or non-adjustable) were prone to warp.

Same with fret dressing, levelling. More and more the guitars comes with compound radius, like 9"-12" or conical radius. Most luthiers can't deal with this properly when filing the fret because you can't have any sanding block that is compund radius. The basically don't know the difference beween conical and compound radius:

1. Conical radius, is a neck where even the last fret has a slight radius. It's still conical and slightly bent.

2. The compound radius: The last fret is completely flat, and has no radius at all. Thus, it's by default not conical at all.

Most repairmen and fret dressing people can't tell the difference between this. A Plek machine does. This is because most repairmen does this with older guitars, and as such, has honed their skills on that, and when faced with newer designs - we should not go into stainless steel frets even - they still stick to their old guns, and their old methods. The first one that occured to me was when refretting an old Music Man bass, where you can't remove frets the usual way. Those frets needs to be hammered out from the side, and numerous repairmen botched these ones up, and having to using fillers, and glue to fit in the new frets, as they ripped the fretboard (especially maple) all around the fret. Ugh!

Just another story, of were a customer left in his bass to numerous luthiers, and even a Plek one, before turning his bass in to Cristian Olsson, luthier of the Unicorn bass of Sweden. However, while the case is told in english, the customer wrote a review below in Swedish.

https://unicornbass.se/site/musicman-sa ... -workshop/

By and large, cutting a long story short, leaving the bass in for a Plek didn't help matters. Either.