Your next guitar revisited

August 2019 is the first KVR Guitar Month so here's a new forum for discussion of all things guitar!
User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
11107 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:13 pm

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:20 pm
Do you really know where your Fender guitar is made? Are the workers there paid a good wage? Do they have health and safety taken care of so they are not dying of inhaled paint fumes in 20 years time?
Many workers come from the farm areas and treat it as seasonal work. This is why production from China is often slow after the Lunar New Year, many factory workers simply don't return after the holiday. Anyway, the pay is only average (and very low by Western standards) but it's still considerably more than what they would be making in the rural areas. In the US, it's comparable to working on fishing boats in Alaska in that you can make a relatively large amount of money in a short amount of time but you probably won't do it for more than a season or two if it isn't your life's work.

I've been to the factories that make Fender and Harley Benton products. They're a bit dreary but are well ventilated and there's nothing I regarded as safety concerns. The Chinese government does regulate working hours and I never saw anyone look like they were being worked to death. Ningbo reminds me of a turn of the century American Industrial Revolution factory town.

User avatar
cptgone
KVRAF
5201 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:49 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:40 pm
You will get your guitar. Or you will get your money back.
No I won't, I haven't paid yet ;)
I went through a Belgian distributor (who actually has a few other Revelation models in stock, they don't seem to sell as well here, less word-of-mouth as of yet, I guess) and he didn't require an advance. I'm sticking with him though, having made my order. I've considered contacting the manufacturer but deemed it wise to just let them do their job. I'll just keep asking the distributor from time to time.

Brexit may make my guitar cheaper (GBP vs Euro), costlier (tariffs) or almost out of reach (company going bankrupt / Britain going Atlantis / fights "on the beaches" / “violent, popular uprising”).

I could get one right now, just not in the colour I like, and aesthetics are a real factor to me, this time over.

Thanks for your input! Nice to hear the brand is doing well.

User avatar
The Noodlist
KVRian
1180 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 am

tapper mike wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:00 pm
As mentioned earlier I"m picking up an Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor Pro II.
I'm already thinking about swapping out the Alnico 2 pups with ceramic humbuckers. I'm afraid the alnico pups won't have enough punch. But that will have to wait at least 6 months after I pick up the guitar.
A compressor at the end of a pedal chain might help, I found a little goes a long way.
Been using a Landlord FX A Cheeky Pint Compressor Pedal to good effect. I find ceramic pups seem to have more of a compressed sound, I compress the Alnico to pull things together.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

User avatar
The Noodlist
KVRian
1180 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:30 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:44 pm
I've got Alnicos that sound super sharp and bright almost harsh. And I've got Ceramics that sound rich and full and rounded.
I've found it can vary, windings, etc.
For me, alnico can be woolly and uncompressed in humbuckers with overdrive, clear and bright in single coils (scatter-wound), smoother and more even in standard single coils.

Ceramic humbuckers in the neck position with distortion can sound round and compressed, sharp and clear in the bridge position.
Used to have a Squier Bullet Strat with ceramic and they sounded very decent.YMMV

I've come to the conclusion, ceramic HB's for metal, Alnico for classic rock and blues. Ibanez Gem has 2 ceramic HB's and1 alnico SC, for that tight sound.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

tapper mike
KVRAF
5112 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:42 pm


As for the 'growl', it's true, they can bite quite a bit when on full tilt, but when dialed back they provide a very clean sound, almost bell-like. And this for me is the quintessence of all the P-90's I've tried (only a few). By 'dialed back' I mean, play your guitar with pups on '7' for a very chimey clean tone, then if you want to go a bit louder and a bit more in your face, crank it up to '9' or '10'.

Most the time this trick doesn't work on most guitars. Well, the strats and teles I have of course. Dialing down to '7' just makes the tone dull (comparatively). But with the P-90's it makes them clearer. Dial up to '9' and you have them louder with greater presence. Dial up to '10' and you have the grunt and saturation. Maybe this is what people mean by 'growl'. It's not a bad adjective to describe it.


There is a way to have the same tone at every volume (I forget the method) and tone at every volume.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3744 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:54 pm

Uncle E wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:50 pm
codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:28 pm
I'm obviously from the camp that says the design is wrong here. The only thing they got wrong.
Man, you and Hendrix, what do the two of you know about tone?!? ;)

The Seymour Duncan Five Two pickup sort of deals with this by putting the brighter sounding magnets under the bass strings and the smoother sounding magnets under the treble strings. However, the consensus seems to be that they lack character.
That bridge pup will still cut like an ice-pick.
Try running your bridge pickup through a Ross-style compressor. It smooths out the harshness except at the initial first attack, giving your pick attack a nice "sting".

Yeah, Jimmy... :hug:

As for the ice pick. It's kinda controlable via eq on most amps, messing with pup height, putting through fx. Or even better, just switching to the middle position via bridge and neck, or just going full on neck pup.

But thanks for the tip all the same. I'm off to google 'Ross-style compressor'. New one on me.

I'm really just chewing the fat here. The ice pick has always been a prominent thing of playing a Tele. But sometimes it's a nice thing to have! It almost goes the opposite direction when employing the neck pup - too boomy and muddy. But that middle position is just superb!

Having said all that, that full on bridge and neck position gets used a hell of a lot too. It's probably what makes the Tele such a widely used no nonsense guitar. It's got the full tonal range, and it's a joy to play. Very basic. To the point.
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3744 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:58 pm

Uncle E wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:13 pm
codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:20 pm
Do you really know where your Fender guitar is made? Are the workers there paid a good wage? Do they have health and safety taken care of so they are not dying of inhaled paint fumes in 20 years time?
Many workers come from the farm areas and treat it as seasonal work. This is why production from China is often slow after the Lunar New Year, many factory workers simply don't return after the holiday. Anyway, the pay is only average (and very low by Western standards) but it's still considerably more than what they would be making in the rural areas. In the US, it's comparable to working on fishing boats in Alaska in that you can make a relatively large amount of money in a short amount of time but you probably won't do it for more than a season or two if it isn't your life's work.

I've been to the factories that make Fender and Harley Benton products. They're a bit dreary but are well ventilated and there's nothing I regarded as safety concerns. The Chinese government does regulate working hours and I never saw anyone look like they were being worked to death. Ningbo reminds me of a turn of the century American Industrial Revolution factory town.

Good info!

Thanks.

This is the sort of stuff that is hard to find unless you luck out and 'meet' someone who has been there.

:tu:
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3744 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 pm

cptgone wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:49 am
codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:40 pm
You will get your guitar. Or you will get your money back.
No I won't, I haven't paid yet ;)
I went through a Belgian distributor (who actually has a few other Revelation models in stock, they don't seem to sell as well here, less word-of-mouth as of yet, I guess) and he didn't require an advance. I'm sticking with him though, having made my order. I've considered contacting the manufacturer but deemed it wise to just let them do their job. I'll just keep asking the distributor from time to time.

Brexit may make my guitar cheaper (GBP vs Euro), costlier (tariffs) or almost out of reach (company going bankrupt / Britain going Atlantis / fights "on the beaches" / “violent, popular uprising”).

I could get one right now, just not in the colour I like, and aesthetics are a real factor to me, this time over.

Thanks for your input! Nice to hear the brand is doing well.

I haven't paid yet ;)

:lol:

I gave up NOT paying for Revelation guitars. They never come. And I've bought a few. I guess if the shop in question got them in they would have called, but alas...

I was interested in their SG copy, and also the short-scale Telecaster. I said if they got either in I'd buy 'em. Never got a call. And like I said, they had my phone number as I'd already bought quite a few guitars from that shop. Maybe they lost my number? Maybe those guitars never turned up?

Ah well, saved a few quid. Didn't really need them anyway.

I remember the fuss though sourcing some of the other guitars from them. The ma and pa shop had the 335 in Pelham Blue which is a colour I despise. So I hunted and got the last Black 335 in the country. They even stopped making 335's after that point. I lucked out.

Anyway, if you still want that guitar, check out the distributors, phone them every few weeks and hope to get lucky. In my experience people who run guitar shops are lazy bastards and you could offer them a thousand pounds for a guitar when it comes in. They still won't tell you. Probably too stoned!

But they do come around. Keep on keepin' on, and a Revelation will one day be yours to revel in and admire. They are beautiful guitars.
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3744 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:46 pm

As for the pick up height thing with regard to tone and high-frequency content - I pulled out my Squier chinese Strat tonight and strummed away. Through my Fender Mustang I amp.

It's a very bright guitar. In fact, the pickups are just about down to the body, they can't be lowered much further. The guitar also has 0.9's on her so that makes it a bit more 'bright' as well. It's not overly bright, but I think I'll put on some 0.10's and see if I can't take those pups down a bit further again!

I seem to remember reading up that this (chinese Squier) Strat has Alnico pups, but I might be wrong. They are very full and rich though, I would say. The reason I bought this guitar was the sound and the pups. I don't care if they are alnico or ceramic, they are just beautiful. I think maybe some of my other guitars are just a bit dull. My no.1 and no.2 guitars are just right, not too hot, not too cold. So I like to think I have some reference point with it all.

Anyway, I recorded this tonight through my Fender Mustang I, using my Zoom H2n -

https://soundcloud.com/codex_pert/zoom0013-edit


Very low volume. All in standard tuning. 2 position on the bridge pup on the Strat (out of phase). It's rough, but it sounds quite nice for very little effort.

Maybe I don't need to take those pups down any further.

Not sure what the setting was on the Zoom H2n with its mic setup.

The Fender Mustang sounds pretty good to me.

So does that Squier Strat.

'Good enough' anyway.
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

User avatar
cptgone
KVRAF
5201 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:36 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 pm
Anyway, if you still want that guitar, check out the distributors, phone them every few weeks and hope to get lucky.
Done 8)
Thanks!

tapper mike
KVRAF
5112 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:06 am

The Noodlist wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 am
tapper mike wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:00 pm
As mentioned earlier I"m picking up an Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor Pro II.
I'm already thinking about swapping out the Alnico 2 pups with ceramic humbuckers. I'm afraid the alnico pups won't have enough punch. But that will have to wait at least 6 months after I pick up the guitar.
A compressor at the end of a pedal chain might help, I found a little goes a long way.
Been using a Landlord FX A Cheeky Pint Compressor Pedal to good effect. I find ceramic pups seem to have more of a compressed sound, I compress the Alnico to pull things together.
The older I get the less I try to do anything with effects. It's just straight into the amp. I like that. I have an amp setting that works for mean and I leave it. I like just picking up the guitar and playing rather then fiddle with knobs. The only thing I use is the reverb that's on the amp.

User avatar
Bombadil
KVRAF
4244 posts since 31 Aug, 2013 from Far From the Twisted Reach of Crazy Sorrow

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:15 pm

I'm the same way, unless I'm in Amplitube (a rarity) then I'll add fx higgledy piggledy. Usually, I just plug directly into my VOX, and that's enough for me. Bought a BOSS GT-8 last year, cheap, and still don't know exactly how to use it. The more I have to fiddle with crap, the bigger the buzzkill.
“We're an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune”
Dennis

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3744 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:54 pm

tapper mike wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:06 am
The Noodlist wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 am
tapper mike wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:00 pm
As mentioned earlier I"m picking up an Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor Pro II.
I'm already thinking about swapping out the Alnico 2 pups with ceramic humbuckers. I'm afraid the alnico pups won't have enough punch. But that will have to wait at least 6 months after I pick up the guitar.
A compressor at the end of a pedal chain might help, I found a little goes a long way.
Been using a Landlord FX A Cheeky Pint Compressor Pedal to good effect. I find ceramic pups seem to have more of a compressed sound, I compress the Alnico to pull things together.
The older I get the less I try to do anything with effects. It's just straight into the amp. I like that. I have an amp setting that works for mean and I leave it. I like just picking up the guitar and playing rather then fiddle with knobs. The only thing I use is the reverb that's on the amp.

I'm holding back the old brain CPU cycles as well these days until I really need them. My Fender Mustang has about 2/3 settings on it that I know will work with most of my guitars. I did spend a while making up presets, but I lost them. And I haven't updated the firmware since the amp was released (v1).

And I'm happy with that. It gives some kind of reference point at least.

I'll be picking up my two new Zoom Multi-Stomp pedals soon that have been delivered. I must admit, I'm looking forward to plugging those in. But then again, a few people say they need a bit of work to make the most out of them. Ah well, if it's worth the effort, maybe I'll dedicate a few of those rare CPU brain cycles to it. If not...
"you're all GUI whores." - banned KVR member 'snooky'.

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
11107 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:36 pm

codec_spurt wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:46 pm
Anyway, I recorded this tonight through my Fender Mustang I, using my Zoom H2n -
Are you open to hearing comments?

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
11107 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Re: Your next guitar revisited

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:46 pm

tapper mike wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:06 am
The older I get the less I try to do anything with effects. It's just straight into the amp. I like that. I have an amp setting that works for mean and I leave it. I like just picking up the guitar and playing rather then fiddle with knobs. The only thing I use is the reverb that's on the amp.
Sometimes it can be nice to use a compressor to get that modern country sound or even an over-the-top Roger McGuinn sound. Also, I like to use the TK999US to get that singing Eric Johnson tone at low volumes. I've spent so much time trying to get that tone using attenuators when it was a pedal all along.

On one gig I was hired to fill in, the regular guitarist spent the whole rehearsal showing me how to use his incredible pedalboard. When it actually came time for the performance, I forgot about everything he told me and basically just played straight into the amp. ;)

Return to “Guitars”