Catalina and plugins

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
CasualHobbyist
KVRist
65 posts since 20 May, 2018

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:59 am

I think Microsoft has plenty of money to go around to not need it to "fund" development as technically they've already done so a long while ago. But yes all those methods are valid, albeit more of a legit loophole than getting a direct W10 license but still, it makes sense.

chk071
KVRAF
21844 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:00 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:57 am
Moreover, with Logic Pro X, Apple have completely changed the rhythm and content of updates. Years of great updates and tons of bug-fixes for free, while Cubasers get hit every six-months for upgrade cash :shrug:
Not quite. It's one year. ;)
CasualHobbyist wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:59 am
I think Microsoft has plenty of money to go around to not need it to "fund" development as technically they've already done so a long while ago. But yes all those methods are valid, albeit more of a legit loophole than getting a direct W10 license but still, it makes sense.
Same goes for Apple, and they still charge for a lot of things. I don't think there's ever a point where a company considers to "have enough money", and give things out for free. That would be extremely dangerous anyway. Microsoft considers Windows 10 a "system as a service", which is why they're not extremely after making money with it. Their money maker is AI, cloud and virtualization stuff anyway.
Last edited by chk071 on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

onerob
KVRist
321 posts since 28 Oct, 2014

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:01 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:29 am
onerob wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:26 am
To be fair, Apple have been warning people for at least two years that 32bit apps were going to stop working. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Did you "actually" read Markus post? It isn't just 32-bit "apps" - even a 64-bit installer that has some 32-bit portion of code will not work.
Yes, I read it.

Apps / software / code. The point being, it's not news. I don't deny it's a faff for developers if they didn't know about the mixed 32/64bit code in their installers.

A few months ago, I was trying out a synth beta, and the installer flashed up the 32bit warning ("not supported in the future" etc...). I informed the developer and he changed the installer in no time at all. It didn't seem to cause a major headache in that instance. But sure, it could prove a big hurdle for others.

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fmr
KVRAF
8887 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:02 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:57 am
Except Logic Pro X costs the same to buy new as the upgrade from Logic 7 to 8, and the same to upgrade from 8 to 9. So, no loss. Moreover, with Logic Pro X, Apple have completely changed the rhythm and content of updates. Years of great updates and tons of bug-fixes for free, while Cubasers get hit every six-months for upgrade cash :shrug:
Not the same, even though not much higher. Nevertheless, if Apple chose to go that way, they should then reward existing users with a free license. What I know is that I was asked to pay as much as a new user, despite my history with Logic.

Regarding Cubase - Cubase is way ahead of Logic now in several aspects, IMO. And it doesn't matter what I m asked to pay, it matters that I have a corss-platform license, and backing the program there is a company commited to music and that cares about their users, not one commited to tablets and smartphones that despises them.
Last edited by fmr on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

CasualHobbyist
KVRist
65 posts since 20 May, 2018

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:03 am

Huh, what "one year?" Oh you mean Cubase and Logic stuff? nvm then, sail and go merry (<nvm this post, was confused here)
chk071 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:00 am
Same goes for Apple, and they still charge for a lot of things. I don't think there's ever a point where a company considers to "have enough money", and give things out for free. That would be extremely dangerous anyway. Microsoft considers Windows 10 a "system as a service", which is why they're not extremely after making money with it. Their money maker is AI, cloud and virtualization stuff anyway.
You are correct that their money making crunchies have been the AI, Azure and virtualization services. I might add along with it their legal team who can get quite a bit of money around to defend these services (and get a pretty penny) and that makes the company stand on good footing today.

Since W10 as you said is working as a SaaS, perhaps in a way it funds itself out, along with getting more developers so the method you listed back then is just among some of them available. I don't know how risky for a company is to completely free their OS though, maybe there's some company or two who holds some copyright or the like on the code so if that's the case then that's probably understandable. As technically macOS is "free" (or so I heard) so long as you got some Apple hardware out there.
Last edited by CasualHobbyist on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

samsam
KVRAF
2755 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:50 am
samsam wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:45 am
fmr which version of Mac OS you sticking with for your music making? You on Logic?

I'm plenty happy with latest pre Catalina and latest Logic, no need to update here.
No, I abandoned Logic when Apple broke the upgrade path. I totally refused to pay full for something I already had (bought Mainstage to have access to the instruments).

I just upgraded my OS from Sierra to Mojave this week, although I still have a mirrored hard-drive with Sierra.

My main sequencer now is Cubase Pro, but I also run REAPER and Digital Performer. One key factor for my choices is cross-platform compatibility (which Logic lost).
I was the same with cross platform til X came out and I simply couldn't resist and added it to my Live.

Buying new version of Logic compared to Cubase upgrade and update charges ain't no thing really. But no, Logic won't run on my Windows (the stuff I use for post - does so frankly I don't care, making music on Mac has always been pretty problem free for me) .

I see you in every Mac thread dissing the platform. Why don't you just drop it? I find it instructive to use both but won't spend my time criticising the relative quirks of each, what's the point? If your need to use both is professional then fair enough, you gotta do what brings in the cash.

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fisherKing
KVRAF
1946 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:30 am

i could care less what OS, or DAW, anyone uses. if you get what you need from it (os, or daw), that should be what matters. these mac vs pc, daw vs daw arguments are, as they've always been... pointless. if you believe your setup is better than mine, but i make better music... i win. (& vice versa).

am on logic on catalina, and (happily) all is well. fwiw, icarus is fine on my setup. also, other plugins i forgot to list previously, that work: arcsyn, dune3, pianoteq, nuance&vice.(i think that's everything i use)...

EDIT: zynaptic intensity (added to 'working' list)
Last edited by fisherKing on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
always one plugin short of perfection...

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 am

All of this reminds me of the Y2K panic...

chk071
KVRAF
21844 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:56 am

Unlike the Y2K panic, this is real though. ;)

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3534 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 am

i just thought about the fxpansion stuff no longer being supported. last time apple did a major "upgrade" all the fxpansion installers stopped working. i have geist1 installed on my mac. :o

anybody know if the old fxpansion stuff will still work? a LOT of people still using guru/geist/synth squad 1/tremor?

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14069 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:38 am

chk071 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:00 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:57 am
Moreover, with Logic Pro X, Apple have completely changed the rhythm and content of updates. Years of great updates and tons of bug-fixes for free, while Cubasers get hit every six-months for upgrade cash :shrug:
Not quite. It's one year. ;)
Maybe they changed, but it used to be .5 upgrades every half-year. Anyway, my point remains.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14069 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:46 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:02 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:57 am
Except Logic Pro X costs the same to buy new as the upgrade from Logic 7 to 8, and the same to upgrade from 8 to 9. So, no loss. Moreover, with Logic Pro X, Apple have completely changed the rhythm and content of updates. Years of great updates and tons of bug-fixes for free, while Cubasers get hit every six-months for upgrade cash :shrug:
Not the same, even though not much higher. Nevertheless, if Apple chose to go that way, they should then reward existing users with a free license. What I know is that I was asked to pay as much as a new user, despite my history with Logic.

Regarding Cubase - Cubase is way ahead of Logic now in several aspects, IMO. And it doesn't matter what I m asked to pay, it matters that I have a corss-platform license, and backing the program there is a company commited to music and that cares about their users, not one commited to tablets and smartphones that despises them.
When I upgraded from 7-8, and 8-9, I'm pretty sure it cost 130 pounds. From memory, it's about the same now
Nevertheless, if Apple chose to go that way, they should then reward existing users with a free license. What I know is that I was asked to pay as much as a new user, despite my history with Logic.
Yeah! I remember feeling that way...for about 5 minutes. But that kind of entitlement doesn't really sit very well. Ultimately, I feel that my money was well spent, and I am glad that many new users were able to get in for a really good deal :shrug:
Regarding Cubase - Cubase is way ahead of Logic now in several aspects, IMO
I would hope so, given you ended up spending more money just because you didn't get the VIP treatment. Personally, I really enjoyed my time with Cubase. But there's nothing that compels me to change, especially considering the much greater investment. If it works for you, I'm glad. Everybody should find the right tools for them :tu:
and backing the program there is a company commited to music and that cares about their users, not one commited to tablets and smartphones that despises them.
Given the amount of years you've been whining about Apple, you must be close to needing a new computer. I bet you can't wait to finally be free of having to back a smartphone company who despises you :shrug:

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Forgotten
KVRAF
4167 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:52 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:46 am
Given the amount of years you've been whining about Apple, you must be close to needing a new computer. I bet you can't wait to finally be free of having to back a smartphone company who despises you :shrug:
Yeah, it will be good when that day arrives. The repetition of the same complaints gets old quickly.

Angus_FX
KVRAF
4679 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:07 am

@Dasheesh you could likely do a manual install, we won't be rebuilding those legacy installers, but it's an open file structure & therefore fairly easy to unpack and put stuff where it ought to go. YMMV.

Strobe2 & Cypher2 are already Catalina-ready (at least "October" Catalina and for hosts which don't enforce plug-in signing and notarisation -- not certain they will work in Studio One for example, and another update _may_ be required for "January" Catalina with stricter Hardened Runtime and installer requirements). Most DAWs right now still load plug-ins without additional checks, but Presonus have announced that they'll use the stricter validation API for Studio One.

Geist2 & BFD3 are being updated to Catalina-ready right now. Then we'll be doing all the BFD3 & Geist2 expansion pack installers, which is a rather longer process (each part of the multi-part, multi-GB installers has to be rebuilt and notarised separately, and it doesn't seem possible to fully automate the process).

There are likely to be some limitations to Geist2's browser - custom file browsers are denied certain privileges that the system file-open widget has - but this depends somewhat on the host's entitlements (plug-ins run within the host's security context, so when Geist2 runs as a plug-in it doesn't have full control over what entitlements it gets).
ROLI | FXpansion
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fmr
KVRAF
8887 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Catalina and plugins

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:46 am

samsam wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:08 am
I see you in every Mac thread dissing the platform. Why don't you just drop it? I find it instructive to use both but won't spend my time criticising the relative quirks of each, what's the point? If your need to use both is professional then fair enough, you gotta do what brings in the cash.
Wrong. I don't dismiss the platform. And I don't criticize the platform. I criticize the policies of Apple, which is a completely different thing. I may like the platform and hate the company. :shrug:

And I don't abandon the platform because I have many years invested, and some tools even don't exist outside of it. But it represents nowadays a fraction of what it represented to me in the past. And it will eventually fade to 0 at some point in the future. But I hold for as long as I can, restraining future investments to the minimum.

That's why having anything cross-platform is so important to me. Because when macOS fades to 0 for me, all of my work will be safe.
Fernando (FMR)

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