I don't know what DAW to try anymore

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From a few incorrect statements about several DAWs, my sense is that you’re giving them a once over and then moving on without really digging in. No DAW is perfect, but for me, Bitwig does most of what I need and you can remove the clips from the mixer view. Learn, don’t churn! :hihi:
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Well, it is ok and nice to explore other DAWs! Why not?! But then when it comes to actual music making, it comes finally to the one (or several!) DAW(s) that you know best and accostumed to the workflow, shortcuts ...etc.

Personally, I was faster in Cubase than any other DAW and second came Sonar. Now, I use mainly without a problem Bitwig and lately I was impressed by Cakewalk which is becoming quickly my prefer DAW! There are two or three points that I prefer Cakewalk (ignore the cost for now!) and they are:
1. Drums. I like acoustic drums more in Cakewalk but the main point that I can audition the midi patterns (files) in the browser with any instrument track.
2. The mixer is of course better in Cakewalk and the Pro Channel is a killer!
3. I can browse and use my Casio keyboard with all the instruments written already in instrument definition file.

I can imagine I can do the same with Logic if I have a mac (of course I can do the same with Cubase). But the advantages of Bitwig are also great!
1. I can run Bitwig native in Linux (I have already set it up in Ubuntu).
2. Workflow with clips luncher is so great. It is my ideas scratch pad, that I drag and drop into the arrangement. This is a killer workflow for me :D
3. Modulation, modulation and modulation! They are everywhere!

So, it is not strange to feel confused a little bit in choosing the right tool! I really find it normal thing! Are people so bright and smart in choosing their perfect tools always? I find that strange! :hihi:

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dakkra wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:35 pm Hey xbitz, out of curiosity why do you use FreeStyle over MUX? I see you've got both, I'm curious what's got you using FreeStyle for macros on VSTs.
MUX doesn't have Audio Unit(AU) version I'm using Logic too, and the macros and their custom ranges of FreeStyle is much more intuitive (can make happy accidents much more easily),
Image

FreeStyle also can auto-sample VSTi instances which is quite nice addons
VERSION 1.25
Convert to Nuance allows any VSTi instance to be auto-sampled and converted into a Nuance patch. Watch it in action here!


https://vimeo.com/241485941

and can take snapshots with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suz3JOGbN6c
which also missing from MUX
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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to the OP
What I am looking for is just a traditional linear DAW with arrangement in the middle, browser on the right, inspector and tracks on the left and a nice big mixer (or fullscreen piano roll when needed) on the bottom screen. It should allow smooth navigation with only the mouse and modifier keys where I can zoom wherever I am without having to reach some slider or timeline or similar and without chunky zooming steps. Editing (and specially) deleting should be easy and doable with just single clicks, drags (and modifiers) without having to constantly change tools and sample-based sounddesign should be facilitated (like pitching with or without stretching, stretching with various algorithms, tapestops, event-envelopes for volume, pitch, pan and so on).
it's Bitwig just disable the clips on the mixer view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrnyGnvCTqo
personally I like FL better because of its more chaotic UI layout, https://www.ideaconnection.com/right-br ... chaos.html :)

and worth to check the video of Moderat for ex. if you like to understand why clips are handy during the song creation process
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHI-BHKk8o
it also introduces Bitwig and its workflow

ps. one more, there is no any orchestral articulation support in Bitwig like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xW02Px3D80
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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I don't really like Moderat's performance oriented workflow, but yet I feel I should give Bitwig another more thorough try. I see myself not using half of what Bitwig offers and makes people love it, but maybe the other half of Bitwig might just suit me well. Just a quick question, can I permanently hide the docked FX rack at the bottom and just open inserts as floating windows when clicking on the corresponding insert slots in the mixer (like most other DAWs do)?

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I went a similar road and Reaper was in the beginning a pain in the ass
But after some modifications it became more and more my favorite DAW
I tried Reaper and I managed to build a workflow that is pretty close to what I have in mind
That´s the point
For example when zoomed out and wanting to move an item that has a fade, even when dragging many pixels away from the fade, instead of moving the item I was changing the fade. So all editing operations became painful and involved a lot of undoing.
You know you can just turn off the fade option and give it a Shift or Strg shortcut instead ?
I got the same problem till I changed the behavior of it.

Maybe your equipment is wrong
Just try a MMO mouse
If you have 12 additional buttons on your right hand (or left) everything will be better :wink:
On my MMO mouse I got a Shortcut for cutting, one for quantize , Strg , Shift ,Alt, undo, redo, play And some Windows shortcuts for back and forward for Websites , etc

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Phazma wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:34 am Just a quick question, can I permanently hide the docked FX rack at the bottom and just open inserts as floating windows when clicking on the corresponding insert slots in the mixer (like most other DAWs do)?
I don't really understand what you mean! Anyway, when you click the "+" sign to add an effect or whatsoever, the browser pop up and you can type what you want in the search to limit it. You can also move the browser window around (not sure why you want to keep it open anyway after you insert the effect!).

The very nice thing about Bitwig is you don't need to memorize the shortcuts (mostly) because everything is logical (almost!), for example, hit "d" for "device", hit "m" for mixer, hit "a" for "automation", hit "L" for "clip launcher" ... etc. I also like the pen editing shortcuts, just hit 1 to 5 to change the tool.

You might want to see some Thavius Beck's tutorials (you can see couple a day for free on MacProVideo.com). I have purchased all his tutorials when it was 75% discount. Anyway how, this is one of the free on YouTube. It might be complicated a little bit, but it will give you a very good idea overall and it might answer some questions you have in mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2gVHybc_4

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Try to make music, track with a DAW, its the best way to learn the daw and also see if you like the workflow.

But from what you wrote i see only one thing...there is a saying "Bad dance always blames his balls"

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Phazma wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:34 am I don't really like Moderat's performance oriented workflow, but yet I feel I should give Bitwig another more thorough try. I see myself not using half of what Bitwig offers and makes people love it, but maybe the other half of Bitwig might just suit me well. Just a quick question, can I permanently hide the docked FX rack at the bottom and just open inserts as floating windows when clicking on the corresponding insert slots in the mixer (like most other DAWs do)?
yes, its visibility can be set independently on the arranger and on the mixer view
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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As other said there is no perfect DAW, I tried almost all of them and has always return to Reaper.
Don't lost your time searching for the perfect DAW, it's a trap.
Choose the one you prefer, learn to deal with it's limitations and go make music NOW !
Remember that DAWs are just tool and the most important is the idea you put inside.

You can make great music with any of them.

If you can't decide, make a list of DAWS give them eaach a number, launch a thimble and let the chance decide for you. :D karma is karma.

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Tj Shredder wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:42 pm I can recommend to go back to analog multitrack tape. Simplifies your life as you would not even try to enhance your workflow... Most world hits in the 80s/90s had been done with it.
:tu:
Get a Fostex portastudio and a bunch of casette tapes!

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Have you tried Reaper?

(OMG, sorry, but I had to say it!!!!!!!!! )

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You've got serious issues with decision making. Set a dead line, like a week a so to decide on a Daw, buy the most expensive version of it, and I promise you, this is the last time you'll spend time on this.

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^^^ easier to set custom weighting in the https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html and choosing the right one for u, although definitely there are some questionable value in it
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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To be honest, I understand the OP's dilemma. Most DAWs are massive overkill for me, and the myriad features tend to get in my way. Throw in a serious lack of interface design expertise, and you get a bunch of marvelously capable programs that aren't all that easy to learn, and in some ways, not very easy to use.

That said, with the goal of making music in mind, you just have to pick the one that comes closest, adapt, and stop worrying about it.

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