DAWs with MIDI reuse

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
trance_lucent
KVRist
409 posts since 27 Sep, 2005

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:30 am

I've named the subject by analogy to code reusing in programming.

I've used Logic for years. Now, it seems, I will migrate to Windows. So I want to ask, what modern DAWs support sort of MIDI reusing, like Logic's aliases, ideally at both low level (clips) and high-level (folders), allowing to change original clip and have these changes in all copies (even transposed).

In Logic I use this thing all the time when it is possible. For example, a bass line. I create a short midi-clip, write some bass pattern, then create an alias of this clip, change relative transpose of it to, say, -4 semitones, when, if needed, create another aliases with different transpose settings. Then, if needed, I can pack this to Folder, create aliases of this folder or just loop it. Now I have a bassline, changing it's key. Then I can decide that I need a bit different bass pattern. I go to the first folder to the first clip, change it's pattern, and voila - the whole bassline on the whole song has been changed, keeping it's keys, so I don't need to recopypaste all this.

This approach is somewhat limited, for example, if I need a bit different patterns in some places, but it still saves a lot of time. I can even see some ways to improve it, so may be there are another DAWs with this, or even better approach to midi reuse?

mutools
KVRAF
10209 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: DAWs with MIDI reusing

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:44 am

MuLab features shared sequences. So you can use a certain sequence in multiple parts (aka clips) and changing that sequence will affect all parts that play that sequence.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19154 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:03 am

Cubase (full) provides for shared or real copies of any Event(s) via Edit/Functions/Repeat, w. a check box in the dialog.

trancema
KVRist
121 posts since 2 Mar, 2007

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:27 am

A lot of modern DAWs are having that ability. Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio are ones, for example.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1229 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:55 am

I think most DAWs have some manageable way of doing this. I just started using Ableton's user clips and find that very handy, but mostly for keeping performances that I liked but think I can can do better. I never reuse stuff unless it's related to mixing or FX.

It does not support "ghost" clips that will change if the corporeal (sorry, "master") clip is altered. At least as far as I know. Logic also has something like user clips I believe.

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antic604
KVRAF
2921 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:02 pm

It's easier to list those that don't - Live, Bitwig; which is ridiculous considering they're the de facto loop-based DAWs...

Reason is somewhere in between, with no ability to link / alias clips, but there are Blocks that are a vertical slices of your arrangement:

https://youtu.be/I6UFCdD4Lyk
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

Z3R0T0N1N
KVRAF
3485 posts since 18 Apr, 2002 from British Columbia, Canada

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:39 pm

I know that Cakewalk (by Bandlab) will do this.
FL Studio (obviously...)
The only one that I can think of that makes it more complicated is Reaper. I know there are good reasons for the way it does it, but I am easily confused, and couldn't make it work for me so I just go full linear when I have to use Reaper.
resistors are futile.
you will be simulated.

trance_lucent
KVRist
409 posts since 27 Sep, 2005

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:42 am

Thank you all,I am glad this feature is in so many DAWs. I hope these DAWs allow not just to make self-updating copies of original, but also transpose these copies.

Tried MuLab Demo - it allows to transpose these shared sequences, indeed. Although it still is a more limited than Logic: Logic's clips may contain note sequences of any length, even longer than clip itself, allowing to make alias that is shorter than original. This is useful if I need to transpose just a short part of original sequence: I can just make alias shorter and transpose it.

Actually I think that even Logic is quite limited in MIDI reuse, so I hoped that there is some DAW that allows even more complex reuse, like, for example, overriding some parts of aliases with new midi events.

trancema
KVRist
121 posts since 2 Mar, 2007

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:59 am

trance_lucent wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:42 am
Thank you all,I am glad this feature is in so many DAWs. I hope these DAWs allow not just to make self-updating copies of original, but also transpose these copies.

Tried MuLab Demo - it allows to transpose these shared sequences, indeed. Although it still is a more limited than Logic: Logic's clips may contain note sequences of any length, even longer than clip itself, allowing to make alias that is shorter than original. This is useful if I need to transpose just a short part of original sequence: I can just make alias shorter and transpose it.

Actually I think that even Logic is quite limited in MIDI reuse, so I hoped that there is some DAW that allows even more complex reuse, like, for example, overriding some parts of aliases with new midi events.
Well FL Studio (with "make unique" function) can do that..And also Cubase and Studio One

mutools
KVRAF
10209 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:43 pm

trance_lucent wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:42 am
Tried MuLab Demo - it allows to transpose these shared sequences, indeed. Although it still is a more limited than Logic: Logic's clips may contain note sequences of any length, even longer than clip itself, allowing to make alias that is shorter than original. This is useful if I need to transpose just a short part of original sequence: I can just make alias shorter and transpose it.
Just for your info:
In MuLab, when multiple parts (clips) play the same sequence, each of these parts can have its own length. Each of these parts can also start playing the sequence at another starting point. Transpose, velocity-factor and relative tempo can all be different per shared sequence part, while still playing the same source sequence.

trance_lucent
KVRist
409 posts since 27 Sep, 2005

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 pm

mutools wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:43 pm
Just for your info:
In MuLab, when multiple parts (clips) play the same sequence, each of these parts can have its own length. Each of these parts can also start playing the sequence at another starting point. Transpose, velocity-factor and relative tempo can all be different per shared sequence part, while still playing the same source sequence.
Thank you, I've just found how to do this (previous time couldn't because my testing part was 1 bar long, and I couldn't shorten it using just mouse with shift/ctrl/alt modifiers, and I didn't notice length quantization selector in the bottom-right). Actually, yes, MuLab conforms my minimal requirements of midi reuse. Also I like some other features: minimalism (may be it is too minimalistic though), modular audio environment, and a great price. This is a real candidate for me now, but I still would miss many Logic's features, primarily screensets.

mutools
KVRAF
10209 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:50 am

Thanks for the update, i'm happy you discovered more of MuLab's power.
trance_lucent wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 pm
Also I like some other features: minimalism (may be it is too minimalistic though), ...
It's indeed a continuous challenge to make the right balance between minimalistic and all-in-front. Also more preferences are being added where such choice is too user dependent. Feel free to post your thoughts/suggestions about how to further finetune things in the MuTools forum. Thx.

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antic604
KVRAF
2921 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:33 am

trance_lucent wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:42 am
I hoped that there is some DAW that allows even more complex reuse, like, for example, overriding some parts of aliases with new midi events.
That's actually possible in Reason's blocks, although - as I said above - it's a vertical slice of the arrangement, not just one clip.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

xbitz
KVRAF
2570 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:07 am

Nora can be used very nicely (as scratchpad too) create some chord progression chop its voices (distribute them to different octaves, can pitch shift notes too) and build tracks from them it has the same interface as Live, Bitwig has can use patterns, clips can be triggered from MIDI etc. voilá somehow like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wuo7vDtjsI

and can be used with any DAW, I'm using with FL it has the best PR just hasn't got clips for experimenting ...

ps. the Nora skin above and zillions another addon can be bought from here https://www.kick101.com/nora-expander/
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

AdvancedFollower
KVRian
504 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: DAWs with MIDI reuse

Post Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:50 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:33 am
trance_lucent wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:42 am
I hoped that there is some DAW that allows even more complex reuse, like, for example, overriding some parts of aliases with new midi events.
That's actually possible in Reason's blocks, although - as I said above - it's a vertical slice of the arrangement, not just one clip.
In Studio One you can just right-click a shared event and select "Separate Shared Copies" to make it into a unique, unlinked MIDI clip.
It's pretty standard stuff in most DAWs. It would be very tedious if for example you wanted to change a single note in one phrase, and you had it do it in 20 different places...

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