Catalina: Apple turns macOS into a closed platform; many audio-devs warned from the upgrade

[MrBauer]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I have talked to several devs in private and know pretty well what's going on behind the scenes. Many devs are very angry and it not economic for them to rewrite large parts of their code.
Please keep in mind that no company will do a statement in the public that they will drop support for Apple, because they will loose sales.

Yes, I can back this up. Unfortunately preparation for the very very vocal minority of ranting users is also part of it.

They will get over it!

[Markus Krause]

The Windows certificate if optional. I paid $159. The certificate does not get obsolete for older installers.

Visual Studio is completely free for hobby developers and small freelancers since a couple of years now

[Forgotten]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Not required for all Windows development, but a business developer account for the Windows Store is also $99 (with a $19 option for individuals).

[BlueprintInc]

I have talked to several devs in private and know pretty well what's going on behind the scenes. Many devs are very angry and it not economic for them to rewrite large parts of their code.
Please keep in mind that no company will do a statement in the public that they will drop support for Apple, because they will loose sales.

Yes, I can back this up. Unfortunately preparation for the very very vocal minority of ranting users is also part of it.

They will get over it!

QED

[Markus Krause]

You do not have to sell through the windows store. It is an open platform

[Forgotten]

You do not have to sell through the windows store. It is an open platform

I know, that's why I said it's not required for all development. I just pointed out that the Windows Store has a developer cost.

[Urs]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

[mladi]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

Do you overread Markus' posts by accident or what is going on here? Must say i'm more then surprised.

[Forgotten]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

Do you overread Markus' posts by accident or what is going on here? Must say i'm more then surprised.

He's not commenting on Markus's posts, he's commenting on the post of the guy he quoted.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I have talked to several devs in private and know pretty well what's going on behind the scenes. Many devs are very angry and it not economic for them to rewrite large parts of their code.
Please keep in mind that no company will do a statement in the public that they will drop support for Apple, because they will loose sales.

Yes, I can back this up. Unfortunately preparation for the very very vocal minority of ranting users is also part of it.

They will get over it!

QED

Evidently you've misunderstood my position

- I think that Apple have seriously mishandled this whole affair.

- I sympathise and empathise with the plight of the developers who have to jump through these hoops.

- I believe that developers should be getting organised behind-the-scenes to be able to approach Apple, as a unified front.

- I don't believe that developers should force themselves to continue doing what they don't want to do, and believe that the right thing to do for many of them might be to drop MacOS support.

- I don't consider any software that I own to be mission-critical, and would happily make music with anything available to me. That being said, I could imagine a tipping point whereby I might follow some of my favourites to another OS.

- I am platform-agnostic, although I do still much prefer using MacOS. I've been dual-booting OSX and Windows via Bootcamp, for years. A Windows-only set-up would not be a hard leap for me to make, should the need arise.

- I don't own any Tone2 stuff, and I now never will. But I've already written off the few Melda plugins I own. Probably for the best, as being a hipster I need to free up more time and money to pursue home-brewing, mandolin-playing, and the general grooming and maintenace of my handlebar moustache

So, to sum up: I am not ranting for the loss of MacOS development. In many ways I'm advocating for it; at least in the sense of developers not losing their sanity. Moreover, as Forgotten so eloquently put it : "Shit, or get off the pot"

[mladi]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

Do you overread Markus' posts by accident or what is going on here? Must say i'm more then surprised.

He's not commenting on Markus's posts, he's commenting on the post of the guy he quoted.

That was the point Einstein.

[Forgotten]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

Do you overread Markus' posts by accident or what is going on here? Must say i'm more then surprised.

He's not commenting on Markus's posts, he's commenting on the post of the guy he quoted.

That was the point Einstein.

Then I don't understand the relevance of your comment on Urs' post.

[Markus Krause]

Unlike on macOS it is not necessary to sign software at all on Windows. The users are able to run software at their own risk. That's why we waited with signing till this year. It was simply not necessary because the users knew what to do

[Urs]

A 99$ *required* for any plugin development on Mac is still 99$ too much for every small dev of free software. On Windows it's not required.

Hmmm, so as a poor developer I have to use Eclipse or whatever and some kind of weird workflow with a tool chain that might be supported or not on Windows (a paid-for operating system) so I can distribute installers that some browsers won't even download. I'd rather go Linux then.

Do you overread Markus' posts by accident or what is going on here? Must say i'm more then surprised.

Huh? I just pointed out that THE development environment for Windows costs ten times as much as that begrudged Apple developer membership. Calling those $99 bucks expensive looks a lot like cherry picking to me. But hey, you can get certificates for 159$ if you want your users to trust your downloads. That's still 60$ more than what Apple asks for.

Nevermind. I get it. Windows is an open system, and while Apple can at any time raise the price to 999$ (why not $99999 while we're at it? That's roughly what Sony asks for, right?), Microsoft will never do that and they'll never ever, ever make code signing mandatory or deprecate any ancient subroutine.