Catalina: Apple turns macOS into a closed platform; many audio-devs warned from the upgrade

[blue monk]

I had no plans updating MacOS to Catalina for at least 1 year.

[elxsound]

Yes. Every dev needs to pay $99. Also when the software is distributed outside the App Store

It is possible that the article is not longer completely up-to-date. I will read it later, since i am tired now and want to go to bed (3 AM at morning here).

The whole signing process is very complicated. It's a little different and even more complicated for plugins than it is with regular apps. There also seems to be an additional, hidden grace period for audio-plugins from Apple's side. We currently do not know when it will end, but Apple asked us in an email how long we would need to finish the who trasition process of notarizing. Newer devs have to notarize everything while older devs only stuff after Aplril 2018.

Here is a thread with the most up-to-date info that we currently have:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=531663

That's interesting.

I was reading on Fabfilter's forum that as far as they know, their plugins are working fine in Catalina. I wasn't sure how to interpret that as saying those tools already installed before upgrading work fine is not the same thing as installing something new in Catalina.

Anyway, like blue monk I'm waiting. While I do have an older Mac to use if I need to access an old project, I don't want to find out something I use doesn't work the hard way.

Right now, the only programs I know won't work and won't be updated ever, is an older version of Scrivner and I'm guessing my dead-weight perpetual license for ProTools.

Avid, such bullshit of f**king company that ever existed. Just a good reminder that "perpetual license" in the setting of a subscription model, is just bullshit.

Its probably a good reason why so many older engineers I met or worked with were working on old ass machines with old version of their OS and old version of the software. Old, old, old... but it worked, worked, worked.

[trusampler]

Historically MacOs breaks alot of software with their updates. Don't upgrade if you're serious about making deadlines. I own both pc n Mac, but my real work is done on windows. Once Steve Jobs passed, macs have never been quite the same imo.

[Urs]

To me there seem to be quite a lot of contradictory claims here.

Why would Apple invest in a notarisation platform for software which is distributed outside of their App Store, if their goal was to enforce selling through that App Store? They could have gotten that a lot easier by simply closing that system, or simply by abandoning package build, product build and codesign. And DMG with symlinks.

If 99$ a year sounds like a hell of a lot for a hobby developer, I wonder what hobby musicians think about plug-in prices.

If I was Apple and if I was keen on sanctioning software, the first person who I'd sanction would be the one who publicly posts an email that I had sent in private. My guess: Apple isn't keen on sanctioning software.

If I was a plug-in developer afraid of the whole notarisation process, I would not worry: Plug-in binaries do not need to be notarised. Applications, installers and DMGs do. So I'd distribute my plug-ins the olden way: In a zip, no installer needed - and no notarisation.

If I was a user of an operating system which has all my contacts, camera access, location services, a password manager, my credit card information and a photo library, and if I was living in a world where companies like Camebridge Analytica exist, where anything as stupid as a simple freeware game could harvest hundreds of millions of aforementioned data sources, where a well trained AI needs one photo from my home to suss out more about me than my friends know, I'd sleep a lot deeper if I knew that access entitlements for random software were somewhat managed for most of us.

Also, if it wasn't against forum guidelines I'd be happy to share a link to a certain warez site where certain Mac cracks for our products (and that of pretty much everyone else selling here) can be downloaded: Each with a great and convenient installer, which - conveniently for the guy who runs the site - also installs a crypto miner and possibly a full backdoor to the system, unbeknownst to the unsuspecting user of a platform which he thinks is free of malware. I really don't mind that to be over and done with.

[mladi]

To me there seem to be quite a lot of contradictory claims here.

Why would Apple invest in a notarisation platform for software which is distributed outside of their App Store, if their goal was to enforce selling through that App Store? They could have gotten that a lot easier by simply closing that system, or simply by abandoning package build, product build and codesign. And DMG with symlinks.

App Store or not nobody knows what will coming next but it's clear that this isn't an open system anymore. Apple CEO or whatever are not stupid in their decisions as it looks like they crave for a closed system on the long run but have to be careful not to snub their userbase. Launch this all because there are unalterable security risks? ..yeah sure what else?, i only ask myself If this is the whole truth then why Windows working fine here since 20 years?

If 99$ a year sounds like a hell of a lot for a hobby developer, I wonder what hobby musicians think about plug-in prices.

What a comparison.. I have to admit that it hurt a bit hearing that from someone like you. I can sleep better when i know that the money i spend to some indie dev stays there and doesn't move on to a greedy global player just because they can.

If I was Apple and if I was keen on sanctioning software, the first person who I'd sanction would be the one who publicly posts an email that I had sent in private. My guess: Apple isn't keen on sanctioning software.

Wow! You stab a fellow publicly in the back who dared to voice his worries here and to lose custumers and god know what consequences will follow for him simply because he cited a mail of a global company? In the same passage you speculate what Apple' motvation is (of course pro Apple) without any evidence. Didn't you said you are not so much for wild speculation? And all you have atm are only presumptions but of course nothing bad will happen.

If I was a plug-in developer afraid of the whole notarisation process, I would not worry: Plug-in binaries do not need to be notarised. Applications, installers and DMGs do. So I'd distribute my plug-ins the olden way: In a zip, no installer needed - and no notarisation.

There goes the security contention. Anyway, we will speak again when you can only install what is unblockedin App Store. Aynthing else makes not much sense in the long view (Money, money, more money)

If I was a user of an operating system which has all my contacts, camera access, location services, a password manager, my credit card information and a photo library, and if I was living in a world where companies like Camebridge Analytica exist, where anything as stupid as a simple freeware game could harvest hundreds of millions of aforementioned data sources, where a well trained AI needs one photo from my home to suss out more about me than my friends know, I'd sleep a lot deeper if I knew that access entitlements for random software were somewhat managed for most of us..

Somewhat managed? Are you serious? Afair Cambridge Analytica has company harvested the personal data of millions without their consent and used it for political advertising purposes. What has this to do with OS?

Also, if it wasn't against forum guidelines I'd be happy to share a link to a certain warez site where certain Mac cracks for our products (and that of pretty much everyone else selling here) can be downloaded: Each with a great and convenient installer, which - conveniently for the guy who runs the site - also installs a crypto miner and possibly a full backdoor to the system, unbeknownst to the unsuspecting user of a platform which he thinks is free of malware. I really don't mind that to be over and done with.

So no crackheads use malware- or virus protection? Do you really think that? And if so isn't it great that they get what they deserve? This can't be a pro argument for our topic.

[fmr]

Since there has been a missunderstanding from several end-users who read this thread which was initially dedicated to devs i updated the first post and splitted it into catergories:
- problems that affect end-users
- problems that affect developers

Very good

[Youlean]

If they close the system for installing apps without the App Store, they could get sued for monopoly like now for iOS.

You can make a website and run it completely free with google cloud platform and also have the free certificate for ssl with let's encrypt.

XCode and Visual Studio are free.

You don't need to sign plugin on Windows or macOS which makes it free.

There are frameworks for the plugins like iPlug which is free or Juce with some restrictions that can be used as a free option.

So, basically, nowadays a developer needs $0 money to get started or to share free plugins (that's how I started BTW). Also, the knowledge is also free, just google it.

[Gamma-UT]

Wow! You stab a fellow publicly in the back who dared to voice his worries here and to lose custumers and god know what consequences will follow for him simply because he cited a mail of a global company? In the same passage you speculate what Apple' motvation is (of course pro Apple) without any evidence. Didn't you said you are not so much for wild speculation? And all you have atm are only presumptions but of course nothing bad will happen.

You really need to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Urs made the point that if Apple was keen on sanctioning people for posting private emails they'd have done it. Apple management knows that anything not subject to an NDA is likely to get posted online sometime somewhere. The Apple email could have been worded a lot better but I can only conclude you completely and utterly missed the point here.

I find it intriguing after all your complaints about Mac users being unreasonable simply for pointing out a developer could have chosen their words better you go off on another developer simply for expressing their own opinion, saying "y'know, this isn't all that bad".

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

People lose their freedom while sometimes they are happy, because they think that everything will be more orderly and all problems will finally be solved. But what really happens is that they are losing a piece of their freedom, often to the detriment of unfounded fear. This gives more harm as much as it is shared by someone at the top, by the leadership

[Gamma-UT]

People lose their freedom while sometimes they are happy, because they think that everything will be more orderly and all problems will finally be solved. But what really happens is that they are losing a piece of their freedom, often to the detriment of unfounded fear. This gives more harm as much as it is shared by someone at the top, by the leadership

So, did you port to Linux yet?

Freedom and all that, y'know.

[Richard_Synapse]

Also, if it wasn't against forum guidelines I'd be happy to share a link to a certain warez site where certain Mac cracks for our products (and that of pretty much everyone else selling here) can be downloaded: Each with a great and convenient installer, which - conveniently for the guy who runs the site - also installs a crypto miner and possibly a full backdoor to the system, unbeknownst to the unsuspecting user of a platform which he thinks is free of malware. I really don't mind that to be over and done with.

+1

To add to that, I think it is very unlikely that large parts of the OS X community are suddenly going to jailbreak their system and turn it into something that has the security level of Windows 98

Richard

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

If you can control what software is running on your OS you can also control the market on this system.
This is what Apple does on the IPhone, it is what Sony does with the Playstation, it is what Nintendo does,...: They take a %xx percentage fee from the sale over every game the is sold from the developer

Does Microsoft host apps on their appstore without taking a cut of the sales? And what about the games it sells through it's Xbox and PC stores? Are you so convinced that Microsoft will not end up doing something similar to Apple, at some point down-the-line, once Apple have paved the way? Maybe Linux is in your destiny

As mentioned before: The microsoft appstore for windows is optional. We are selling our software outside of it since 2001.
I added the appstore for the XBOX.

Up till this point, and for the foreseeable future, Apple's appstore is optional, and many developers have been selling software independently for longer than you

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

No. Microsoft does not take a and never did take a percentage fee for any PC game - no matter where it was sold. The only exception is their own, optional App Store.

I thought it was quite clear that we were both operating within your given context of appstores

Please note: I am not so biased at Microsoft as you might think. There are many things that i dislike and should be improved, but this is not the topic of this thread

Perhaps it would be advisable to start sharing some of your issues with Windows; certainly, if you are not so biased. Because, by omission, you are allowing a very unrealistic perception to continue.

[MeldaProduction]

You could consider telling customers to disable Gatekeeper with sudo spctl --master-disable. I'm not sure if you'd get retaliated by someone for recommending that though. Most music producers don't really care about new fancy security though. I don't even have internet on my main studio computer.

Ha! This would remove the idiotic notarization and stuff? Interesting!

[Markus Krause]

What i dislike with Windows 10:

- With a fresh install i need 2 hours to adjust the privacy settings

- Crapware that ships preinstalled with Laptops

- HiDpi support is very buggy

- Updates which slow down the systems while beeing installed without asking the user

- the AppStore

- the start-menu (you can install a custom one, but as an odscooler i miss it)

- Certifcates