KVR Audio

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:20 pm

Okay, I know that VST instruments are audio output devices, but I've often wondered why you can't record MIDI using the keyboard, drums, or whatever they provide to audition their sounds. There have been numerous times when I was futzing and had an idea and would've liked to just quickly record it.

Is this something plug-in vendors never thought of or implemented? Is it not within the capabilities of the various plug-in formats? Is it something the DAWs don't do?

I would suspect that at least some of the plug-in formats don't allow it as EZDrummer allows you to record a clip internally then drag it to the DAW, but I don't actually know. Hence the questions.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:26 pm

You could use your QWERTY keyboard.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:54 pm

jonljacobi wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:20 pm why you can't record MIDI using the keyboard, drums, or whatever they provide to audition their sounds.

Where do you get this?

For example, BFD3 has a transport with a record button. I've never used it or the groove engine at all, but the manual describes recording a groove, and this is apparently independent of a DAW/sequencer.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:56 pm

I don't think this is the only instance I've seen, but I don't wonder, I don't need it. I know I see that transport every day.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:43 pm

I’m talking about recording directly into the DAW. EZD was just an example, but it records internally then you drag the clip to the DAW.

Put another way, can virtual instruments output MIDI to the DAW, or is there a limitation in the plugin standards that prevent this?

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:17 pm

You can get VST Midi keyboards ... I can't think of any off hand.

EDIT Google found this one https://sourceforge.net/projects/vmpk/

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:00 am

Kontakt sends MIDI to 'the outside world', albeit I have not figured out how to do anything with it in Cubase, if that's it.
Fortunately this was just a knowledge quest rather than having any good reason to do it. I hit a

BFD will export whatever's in it as audio. If your DAW is loaded, I don't get the upside of MIDI in the instrument except in the sense of *through*. I used to export fr. BFD as stems but this is pre-VE Pro which rather obviates all that.

Plugin formats do not have the limitation per se, except I don't know how to get MIDI back to Cubase from anything.
I don't reckon it can't be done with DAWs per se.
IE: I used to set up templates sending my clicks on the plugin keyboards, starting from say Absynth, to and through Kontakt to another instrument in VE Pro in its standalone. This was AU, fr. when VE Pro on OSX didn't do VST.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:15 am

That's just my failure to get the MIDI through to Cubase (and nb., I'm just not all that swift), but recording a plugin's output {audio} is not that problem. I'd have to test it but I believe I could simply record the instrument channel while clicking on the GUI keyboard in any instrument. I don't see any upside to going to the trouble tho.

If I want a generative Reaktor instrument's output, I record the instrument channel through a [group] bus (a Cubase thing) to an audio track.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:01 pm

This is hardly a major issue. It’s just as I said, occasionally I may be noodling around and something good comes up and it would be nice just to get the MIDI info/idea entered without an intermediary step or having to grab a controller.

mladi · Post by **mladi** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:17 pm

I don't get the question right i'm afraid as recording VST instruments into midi is pretty standard in any DAW.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:11 pm

I don't really understand what jonljacobi is looking for.

An instrument which produces MIDI ?
(it is the role of the DAW or of the sheet editor using the MIDI keyboard or the mouse (note after note) or of a wide library of MIDI phrases, not the role of the instruments)

A sequencer ?
(They all produce MIDI sequences)

The specific case of EZDrummer and EZKeys is that they are instruments which simply have a very elementary built-in mini-DAW which allows to record some ideas. But that... it is already doable with any DAW using the MIDI keyboard and any plugin instrument.

And so... I don't really understand the question.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:20 pm

jonljacobi wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:01 pm This is hardly a major issue. It’s just as I said, occasionally I may be noodling around and something good comes up and it would be nice just to get the MIDI info/idea entered without an intermediary step or having to grab a controller.

Is that kind of ideas always simply a little melodic monophonic phrase ?

In that case you simply whistle it (slowly and clearly) then use a converter "Audio to MIDI". As long as it is a simple and short melody (not more than around 15 seconds) it is doable with that kind of tool which will produce the MIDI line (be aware that this kind of tool will never do other than that kind of very simple work, I don't believe in tools which pretend to convert full audio polyphonic pages to MIDI). Then you make the corrections by hand to save it definitively as a new idea in your "library of ideas".

Saffran · Post by **Saffran** » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:43 pm

I thought every daw recorded the midi to the track with the softsynth. I know Cakewalk_bb does.
But you have to record your midi input to have it appear in the track.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:17 pm

The question is about MIDI notes. My bad for not putting that in the title. Say you have a VSTi such as FM8 on a MIDI track, and it’s open, and the auditioning piano keyboard is shown. Arm the track, start recording. Why can’t you use that auditioning piano keyboard on the FM8 to record notes onto the DAW track? Or similar on other VST instruments?

Of course there are other ways to enter notes, and I use them. I’ve just always wondered about this and if it’s not possible or if vendors just never thought about allowing it.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:47 pm

As I said here, because it is not the role of an instrument to produce MIDI.

Then you will ask "What then is the purpose of the built-in keyboard in the instruments ?"

The answer is simple : to let you try the patches you are making. The built-in keyboard must be able to internally trigger some notes. That's all. And even this built-in keyboard is not at all necessary given that the hardware keyboard or a MIDI sequence coming from the DAW or from a step-sequencer can perfectly be used also for that purpose.

A virtual built-in keyboard being necessarily played with the mouse, on a virtual built-in keyboard you could not even play a chord! It can only be successive single notes!

Why would you absolutely want to have the built-in keyboards producing these MIDI sequences when all the DAWs and MIDI hardware keyboards are already there to make them ? That would be redundant... and in addition that would add additional code (never used by the musicians nor by the composers) in all the plugins. And redundant again since all these plugins would have more or less that same code. It is totally useless to have these redundancies in all the instruments... knowing that it is not at all (and it has never been) the role of an instrument to produce elements of a score, it is the role of the DAW, the step-sequencer, the sheet editor, or the hardware MIDI keyboard. The built-in keyboard is there only to make you experiment your patches while designing them (or while choosing them in the preset browser) by playing some single notes here and there.

Entering/recording notes from VST instruments