Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me? Edit: bought Microbrute.

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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pdxindy
KVRAF
16058 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:26 pm

recursive one wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:27 am
For that matter I'm afraid Neutron may be too much for me. I have troubles with finishing tracks so this may be yet another complicating factor. When I want to have some really deep programming I can always do it in my Virus or software synths anyway.
The Neutron is a wild little synth. As soon as you play it you know it is not a soft-synth! I think it has a pleasing and vibrant sound. It also has some quirks.

Sometimes you find some sweet spot and you may never find it again. When you got something you like, you gotta just record it right then. Who knows... maybe that would help you finish tracks!

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tehlord
KVRAF
7851 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:07 pm

I have a K2 and Neutron here and I can't think of better value synths for the OP's requirements, very Psy friendly too.

I'm actually selling the Neutron because it's surplus to my needs, and the only caveat I would say is that it's not 'dripping' in analogue tone. It does cover a lot of ground though.

I do think the Microbrute is a good shout too, and far more immediate. Surprisingly versatile with the oscillator variations and they do still sound great.

One last option might be the Microfreak. Again something I had but I gave it to my son, but it's very versatile and capable of multiple levels of win.

recursive one
KVRAF
4277 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:36 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:26 pm
Who knows... maybe that would help you finish tracks!
Definitely not :D My struggles are because I suck at mixing, but luckily I don't have much problems with musical or sound-design ideas.

I realize that I don't actually need a hardware synth (porbably a pack of good mixing plugins would be much better value in my case) but for some unexplainable reason I want it.
tehlord wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:07 pm
the only caveat I would say is that it's not 'dripping' in analogue tone.
Actually that's sort of my impression from demos. Some of the sounds I've heard were quite cool in some quirky way but I can't shake the feeling that something like that could be pretty much doable in Bazille or Reaktor Blocks with the obvious advantages of patch recall and such. If I'm going to get an analog, I want it to sound like the real phat analog 8)

So probably K-2, this demo sounds pretty awesome, I really love the character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-tyaZgx3Ao

Also I suddenly came across this, sounds good for the price and quite psy-able/acid-able
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhIIPjX9s4
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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tehlord
KVRAF
7851 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:33 am

Personally I don't think the Mini/Monologue sound that great at all.

If you want really, really fat analogue sounds, look at the Mono Lancet or Dreadbox stuff. It's in a different league to anything else mentioned here (I've had them all by the way....). Mono Lancet is far simpler, but FAF (fat as fvck) and a used Erebus is probably within budget too.

chk071
KVRAF
22238 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:55 am

I guess it really depends on the definition of "fat". I wouldn't call either the KS-2/MS-20 nor the Minilogue extremely fat. Rather two screamy beasts, even though the KS-2 should be even more screamy, if it models the MS-20 well... not my cup of tea, the Brute's aren't either. They all have kind of a "dry" sound, not juicy, which i'm not exactly fond of.

Just my opinion, of course. YMMV (it probably will).

recursive one
KVRAF
4277 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:07 am

The good thing about Monologue is that quite a few music stores in my city have them, so I can go there and play with one myself. Mono Lancet sounds very cool on youtube but it seems quite hard to find one where I live (found it in an online store but the price is two times higher than Monologue, our gear prices are quite funny at times).

I thought Monologue sounded different to Minilogue?

So far K-2 seems the most interesting, followed my Microbrute (not sure i 100% like the character, it definitely sounds fat but probably dirtier/noisier than I'd like).

IKM Uno is not worth considering?
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9861 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:39 am

pdxindy wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:26 pm
recursive one wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:27 am
For that matter I'm afraid Neutron may be too much for me. I have troubles with finishing tracks so this may be yet another complicating factor. When I want to have some really deep programming I can always do it in my Virus or software synths anyway.
The Neutron is a wild little synth. As soon as you play it you know it is not a soft-synth! I think it has a pleasing and vibrant sound. It also has some quirks.

Sometimes you find some sweet spot and you may never find it again. When you got something you like, you gotta just record it right then. Who knows... maybe that would help you finish tracks!
That’s why I never buy a synth without patch memory. Who wants to finish a track!? :D
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9861 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:01 am

recursive one wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:36 pm
I realize that I don't actually need a hardware synth (porbably a pack of good mixing plugins would be much better value in my case) but for some unexplainable reason I want it.
Ah, good ol’ G.A.S. Gotta love it! In all seriousness, as much as I love software, I have found that having some hardware around makes sense in more than just “I like having it” terms. Here’s a few reasons that make sense to me.

Workflow: Hardware forces me to work in a different way. It’s often not as easy as working with software. Sometimes it’s just really fun to have a single purpose instrument with its own control surface.

Sound character: You can do a lot with software. Would you be able to do everything the Neutron does in Reaktor Blocks? Probably, but it would never sound the same. Not exactly the same. If there is a sonic character of a hardware synth that really inspires you, you should get that synth. Even if there’s a 1:1 emulation of it, it probably won’t get it perfectly.

Sound quality: Plugins have come a long way... but to get that level of quality, especially when doing audio rate modulation type sounds, comes at a high CPU price. Having a handful of hardware synths around does free my CPU up for other tasks that software is better suited for.
tehlord wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:07 pm
the only caveat I would say is that it's not 'dripping' in analogue tone.
Actually that's sort of my impression from demos. Some of the sounds I've heard were quite cool in some quirky way but I can't shake the feeling that something like that could be pretty much doable in Bazille or Reaktor Blocks with the obvious advantages of patch recall and such. If I'm going to get an analog, I want it to sound like the real phat analog 8)

So probably K-2, this demo sounds pretty awesome, I really love the character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-tyaZgx3Ao

Also I suddenly came across this, sounds good for the price and quite psy-able/acid-able
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhIIPjX9s4
I think there’s a myth about there being some sort of “analog tone” character. It’s probably due to what people grew up with. A lot of us just associate Moog with analog tone because of it’s long illustrious history in that arena. But that’s really a narrow way to think of it. You’ll get more of that flavor from Monark or Legend, but that doesn’t mean that the Neutron doesn’t sound very “analog.” It’s just a different flavor, and I applaud Behringer for going somewhere new. If you want hardware that sounds more like classic analog, just get one of their clones and have it sit side by side the Neutron. The Model D would be a great choice.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

chk071
KVRAF
22238 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:04 am

Just did a Google search, i didn't know the K-2 was so cheap... quite incredible how Behringer bring the house down with their stuff. I mean, frankly, with stuff which is that good and close to the original device, they gotta sell plenty of their synths.

recursive one
KVRAF
4277 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:23 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:01 am
Workflow: Hardware forces me to work in a different way. It’s often not as easy as working with software. Sometimes it’s just really fun to have a single purpose instrument with its own control surface.

Sound character: You can do a lot with software. Would you be able to do everything the Neutron does in Reaktor Blocks? Probably, but it would never sound the same. Not exactly the same. If there is a sonic character of a hardware synth that really inspires you, you should get that synth. Even if there’s a 1:1 emulation of it, it probably won’t get it perfectly.

Sound quality: Plugins have come a long way... but to get that level of quality, especially when doing audio rate modulation type sounds, comes at a high CPU price. Having a handful of hardware synths around does free my CPU up for other tasks that software is better suited for.
Basically I look for different workflow (knobby surface and ideally knob per function design) and some sound character different from my plugins and Virus. On the other hand, i don't want to get completely lost, Neutron looks quite intimidating to me :? Proably i should get more experience with programming my sofwtare modulars before getting Neutron. I do use Bazille quite a bit but I mostly modify the presets and make quite basic patches, can't say I really understand in depth how it is supposed to be programmed.

Since I never owned an actual analog synth I confess that I don't really know what is "analog sound", my impression of analog comes mostly from the emulations like Diva, Repro, Monark and Tal-101. On the other hand, as I have all these I don't see much point in getting Berhinger clones of the same synths, in this case the software is good enough for me.

I watched more Microbrute videos, it actually seems that this harsh and noisy character probably comes from people abusing that "brute factor", the base tone of the synth seems to be nice, fat and rounded, I like it.

Still K-2 looks like it is going to hit the right spot between complexity and immediacy, and I like the sound the most (from that single demo) but it's not quite clear when it will be available in my country and at what price.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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tehlord
KVRAF
7851 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:06 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:01 am


I think there’s a myth about there being some sort of “analog tone” character. It’s probably due to what people grew up with.
No, it's not. I grew up with digital synths, most of my favourite synths are digital synths.

Of the 30 odd synths I own right now (wide range of analogue and digital), some of the analogue have a distinct, definite tone that only 'some' of the analogue ones can achieve.

recursive one
KVRAF
4277 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:58 am

Well, the K-2 prices in my country apepar to be somewhat higher than I expected.

I think I'll start with a Microbrute and see how well an analogue synth integrates into my workflow, then probably think about something bigger and more complex.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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tehlord
KVRAF
7851 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:01 am

Microbrute is still a great synth.

And you have the BPF, all important for Psy!

recursive one
KVRAF
4277 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:52 am

Just got my Microbrute today, really like the sound. Sounds really huge and i love the character. Seems like im going to have a lot of fun with it :)
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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tehlord
KVRAF
7851 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Cheap hardware synth for psytrance (below 350 eur) - is Neutron the right synth for me?

Post Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:02 am

Another great choice for Psy. I've had a couple of Microbrute's and I might have the itch for another one. Bonus for psy is the effective BPF and metallic filters.

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