Roli Seaboard RISE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:01 am

himalaya wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:22 am
What do you mean by the "Pitch Bend technique". Is it the means of using a spring-loaded controller, like a pitch-mod wheel to modulate the pitch of a note? I'm guessing from your video that this is the case?
himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:03 am
(and what is "Pitch Wheel rotation" ?)
Pitch Wheel is an actual wheel - it is just a resistor pot (spring balanced) and is not very precise to be honest (it should have been done with extension springs on both sides... but anyway, does not matter that much). And you rotate the plastic wheel or joystick that covers the pot or stick of the joystick. In the case of surface controllers it can be a slide gesture, software brings it back to 0.
Mine has ×4 Pitch Bend polyphony (one player) for lower latency.
If you try to control more than that, it leads to a mess in the sound... may sound cool, but that "effect" can be done with a slide or elbow glide on the keys. :D

himalaya
KVRAF
5186 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:06 am

ok. Thanks (just wanted to hear from you what you mean by 'rotation', not what the pitch-wheel actually is).

And the other question? Regarding "Pitch Bend technique" ?
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

User avatar
ChamomileShark
KVRAF
1734 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:20 am

himalaya wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:03 am
ChamomileShark wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:36 am
I prefer simple sounds (I came from an era of simple synth tones) and delicate ones at that.
I also come from the era of simple synth sounds. :)
In fact, one of my all time favs is the Korg Mini700, that always sits next to me. It's such a simple synth, but so good sounding! This Korg was used a lot in the 70s by Vangelis and Kitaro. You will actually find some of my mini700 emulations in the Cypher2 factory set, although they are not MPE (adding 5D to these patches would destroy their authenticity). You need to select the 'Factory' filter tag (rather than the 'MPE' one). These are 1:1 emulations, as close as I could make Cypher sound like a real vintage Korg mini700. :D

Otherwise, here are my recommendation for the 'simpler', purer, patches from the MPE set:

LD Beautiful Pulse Lad
LD Beauty and the Synth
LD Duphonic Etherium Horn
LD Lush PWM Lead
LD Mellow Pulses
LD Mellow Saws
LD Panorama Lead
LD Vintage Mellosolo
LD Vintage Mini Power
LD Vintage Monophonium
LD Vintage Octaves

These are all pure in tone, smooth, very playable. Try them.

The only thing I would say when browsing MPE/5D presets, it is not advisable to browse presets in the traditional way, with a project playing, and with the user simply clicking the preset browser arrow 'next' button, to advance to the next preset....select, hear it being triggered by midi, click next, hear it being triggered by midi, click next...this does not work with 5D presets. We need to select the preset and play it for a moment, before making a call whether it is suitable or not. :)
thanks for this. It's made me spend a little time with this instead of my usual moving on to the next thing as I'm currrently in a recording phase.

Good point re listening in isolation - I suspect it was a problem within the track why it sounded unfocused. Making the Roli less sensitive to press has helped too.

Just been trying your Bandpass Ensemble - very nice and looking at the press curves scope I can see my fingering is all over the place. It's actually a bit easier than on the Roli application to see.

Thanks, that was a helpful response.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7729 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:22 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:58 am
Because you send a Pitch Bend Message does not mean you are using a Pitch Bend technique.
I completely understand why for keyboardists this is a very difficult thing to comprehend.
I guess it's also difficult for guitar players like me to comprehend? Please.

You came into a thread discussing midi controllers, specifically the Seaboard Rise and claimed that it doesn't do pitch bend per note. Pitch bend only means one thing with midi controllers: Bending the pitch. It is not a technique, it's any way of altering the pitch continuously with a physical motion on a device, like a pitch wheel, a ribbon or X axis glide on the Seaboard. There are many techniques of creating a pitch bend on midi controllers that mimic pitch altering techniques on acoustic instruments (portamento, vibrato etc.).

Read carefully: You are the only one using the words "pitch bend" to describe a physical technique. Do you understand? So claiming that your keyboard is the only one that can do it is ridiculous if everyone else uses the term differently. Hey guess what, I just made a keyboard. Did you know that no other keyboard out there can play a C note? My keyboard can play a proper C note. When I hit the C note, a leprechaun pops out of a box on my desk.That is a real C note. And no other keyboard can play C.

So you took a term which refers to something very common in other controllers, changed it to mean something only your keyboard can do and then went and told people that other controllers can't do it. I thought you were crazy and it was funny, but nobody is this foolish. I'm starting to think this is some sneaky promotion of your keyboard. And it's very dishonest.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

cleverr1
KVRist
376 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:49 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:58 am
Because you send a Pitch Bend Message does not mean you are using a Pitch Bend technique.
I completely understand why for keyboardists this is a very difficult thing to comprehend.
That is just one of the reasons I've designed the Pashkuli Keyboard.
This makes no sense. If you’re performing on an instrument and are intentionally producing pitch bend messages then you are by definition using a pitch bend technique.

User avatar
Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:50 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:22 am
The level of ignorance you demonstrate is quite disturbing... for a guitar player, who supposedly has some idea what Pitch Bend is.
Think of it this way:
Pitch Wheel is your Whammy bar (Floyd Rose style for both directions)
Pitch Slide is when you slide (or "wank") on the strings by moving your finger from one Note/pitch to the second one. Not a Pitch Bend, although on a fretless instrument might sound very similar.
Pitch bend is when you stick onto the note for that instrument and Bend its pitch - a sound source (string), controller (any suitable will do).
No need to slide, wank, or go into the 5th dimension.
Last edited by Pashkuli on Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
59400 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:52 am

wanking on guitars is a no no when trying them in stores. apparently.

User avatar
ChamomileShark
KVRAF
1734 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:16 am

vurt wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:52 am
wanking on guitars is a no no when trying them in stores. apparently.
Doing it while playing "Stairway to Heaven" gets you banned for life.

Edit: er, happened to a friend of mine

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7729 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:25 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:50 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:22 am
The level of ignorance you demonstrate is quite disturbing... for a guitar player, who supposedly has some idea what Pitch Bend is.
Think of it this way:
Pitch Wheel is your Whammy bar (Floyd Rose style for both directions)
Pitch Slide is when you slide (or "wank") on the strings by moving your finger from one Note/pitch to the second one. Not a Pitch Bend, although on a fretless instrument might sound very similar.
Pitch bend is when you stick onto the note for that instrument and Bend its pitch - a sound source (string), controller (any suitable will do).
No need to slide, wank, or go into the 5th dimension.
You are not reading anything I wrote are you? These are your definitions. And you are applying them to guitar. We are talking about midi controllers and the general all-encompassing term for altering pitch. Do you understand these words that I just wrote for you?

By the way, can your keyboard play a C note? If you think it can, then you are ignorant because you don't understand that only my keyboard plays a proper C note, which is where a leprachaun jumps out of the box on my desk. Oh you didn't know that this is what a C note is? So ignorant.
Last edited by Echoes in the Attic on Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7729 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:26 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:03 pm
There's just no reasoning with that guy. May as well give up because he'll never see the light. :D
Yep, true statement.
The Dunning-Krugerness is out of control here.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Ploki
KVRAF
1553 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:51 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:50 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:22 am
The level of ignorance you demonstrate is quite disturbing... for a guitar player, who supposedly has some idea what Pitch Bend is.
Think of it this way:
Pitch Wheel is your Whammy bar (Floyd Rose style for both directions)
Pitch Slide is when you slide (or "wank") on the strings by moving your finger from one Note/pitch to the second one. Not a Pitch Bend, although on a fretless instrument might sound very similar.
Pitch bend is when you stick onto the note for that instrument and Bend its pitch - a sound source (string), controller (any suitable will do).
No need to slide, wank, or go into the 5th dimension.
hm, not really.
With a whammy you loosen or tighten the tension, with sliding you shorten/lengthen the string. They sound different because the physicals properties are different (length vs tension).
That's also the thing with vibrato on a violin, you can wiggle it and shorten/lengthen, or you can press harder and affect tension.

However in a case of a SYNTH. (not sample. Synth.), bending a note or playing a higher note is identical, there's no distinction between playing a note an octave higher, or bending it there.

As a side note, that's another issue i have with all MPE controllers - they don't play well with samples unless they're specifically programmed for MPE, because stretching a pitch VS sliding and targeting a new pitch is a different scenario.

User avatar
Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:21 am

Whammy - global = Pitch Wheel - global (requires another helping hand, foot/whammy pedal of the player)
Pitch Bend - local (on the note) = Pitch Bend - local (on the key pressed, do not move your finger from it)
Pitch Slide or Pitch Glide can be all over the place - not local

Seaboard is a linear grid surface. You can only slide(XY, can be assigned to Pitch, Mod, FX messages) or press/release (Velocity, Sustain, On/OFF messages)... whatever software you've got developed. Anyone can do that with a velostat and Arduino (in small format factor).
But you can not even play two notes with one fingertip.

Ploki
KVRAF
1553 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:52 am

That's a very unnecessary distinction

himalaya
KVRAF
5186 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:51 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:21 am
But you can not even play two notes with one fingertip.
And is the stipulation that you can do that on a piano? Well, the Seaboard is not a piano, it is....a Seaboard and has its own set of performance features. Why is this even a topic? Seems to me that you want to rise the bar and cast a negative aura here. Why? You can co-exist with everyone else without this strange negative angle. We love the Seaboard, the Linnstrumnet, Haken Continuum, Madrona Labs Soundplane, etc. All are such beautiful expressive instruments, each with its own set of quirks and benefits. All can co-exist without one designer coming in and creating a very strange vibe, as if you had some ulterior motives. You don't right?
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

himalaya
KVRAF
5186 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:53 am

Pashkuli, your line of conversation is very... tired
I had to go and play some music on the Seaboard to get my chakras happy again :D

https://youtu.be/Djz6L9iNe50
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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