KVR Audio

maximilians1 · Post by **maximilians1** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:44 pm

learjeff wrote:Well, I did a quick knock off sampling of my 1977 Rhodes Mark I Stage piano, to check out methodology and learn the tools.

I sampled every 4th white key, starting with F1. I didn't use a key-thumper because the one I rigged up made too much noise, which came through on the recording (bam!). I started with three velocity layers, but added a 4th between the mezzo and forte layers, from middle C down, because it really needed it.

I recorded straight off the harp, bypassing the Rhodes' tone controls. I scooped out in the bass, about 100 Hz, using the semi-parametric on my mixer, because that's the sound I want (and what Scarbee, great as it is, isn't).

I recorded each velocity layer in one file, in 24 bits, using a MOTU 828. I normalized and converted to 16 bits, and removed the noise using CoolEdit96 (which only handles 16-bit files). I then processed each file with a little Python program I wrote, which chops up the samples into separate files, naming the files according to the note name (based on the frequency using a simple autocorrelation algorithm). I created the instrument using GigaStudio32 (which I found on ebay for $30).

Here's a short clip of me playing the results. Not too bad, considering how quickly it went together.

=> jrhodes.mp3

Please ignore the crappy timing. When I ran my DAW and Giga at the same time, the latency went up and it was hard to play well. Yet another little technical mystery to figure out. Isn't computer-based music fun!

Now, if I can figure out how to convert the Giga instrument into a soundfont, I'll post it. It takes about 45 MB, but could be shrunk considerably by shortening and looping the samples.

I was told that Vienna won't work unless I have a soundblaster (which I don't, it's a laptop). I also tried "Translator Free", but it just shows a splashscreen and hangs.

If anyone knows a good free or CHEAP prog to convert Giga instruments, or edit soundfonts, I'd sure like to know. But I did say CHEAP, right? I'm using a Rhodes I've had since 1977, a $30 copy of Gigastudio, a computer provided by my employer, a $70 DAW program (n-Track), a TASCAM mixer I've had since 1982, and a used MOTU I got for about $500 (ouch!) Well, I did pay good money for my Ensoniq back in 1997, but see the pattern here?

If I do another round, I probably won't sample too many more keys -- the Rhodes doesn't seem to need it. Maybe every 3rd white key instead. What I will pay a lot more attention to is the velocities when sampling (of course). Unless I can design a reliable and QUIET thumper, that'll be the hardest part.

Cheers!
Jeff

Hmm don't know of any free ones but your sample there sounds real good!!

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:49 pm

Hey Maximillians1, that sounds cool! Nice playing too! Funky!!!
Let me know if you develop the sound/sample set.
Good luck.
Dreic.

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:51 pm

errrr make that: Hey Learjeff!.
Deric.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:09 pm

Learjeff, try Extreme Sample Converter for converting Giga<->SF2 and much more:

www.extranslator.com

A steal for 40 Euros

precisionsound · Post by **precisionsound** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:19 pm

Yes ExtremeSampleConverter can do what others can't HALion > Giga for example. Even if it doesn’t do it right the whole way it’s possible to get help with the mapping. You need
GS Edit to correct the mistakes but it really helps to have the ESC if you developing sample libraries.
We are going to offer a Giga version of our Dusty Electric MK II soon and ESC will help us out in some way, make the life easier

Lars

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:23 pm

gigasamples aren't so bad; a lot of software samplers, such as sfz and vsampler, will read them. but try the freeware version of chickensys translator; it'll convert just about anything.

i like the sounds on your demo; it's the real thing, nice and warm and all that. many notes seem to have an excesive amount of "click" on the attacks, however.

-- just another f*cking observer

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:06 am

Chicken just hangs. But CDExtract demo worked great. Here it is, 6MB. Needs work, not nearly the even playability of Scarbee. But it's close enough to the sound I learned to love almost 30 years ago (if you add a little pitch shift doubling or mild chorus).

=> jRhodes1.sfpack

Have fun

If anyone goes to the trouble of cleaning it up, like looping it or else fading out the ends properly, just let me know!

And just maybe the next time my wife takes a business trip I'll do some serious sampling rather than this dash-off.

nool · Post by **nool** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:33 pm

Go here they are discussing this topic heavily

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59771

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:30 pm

Oops -- if anyone downloaded my sf2 yesterday or earlier, check the size. If it's 6MB, download it again. The first program I used to convert between Giga and SF was a demo that truncated the samples to 8 or 10 bits. It should be a 12 MB file. You can hear the difference very clearly, especially in the tails of the notes.

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:33 pm

Thanks, Griels, for pointing out Extreme Sample Converter. Looks like a great little prog, and is a good one for editing loops, too. I think I'll buy it!

papatomany · Post by **papatomany** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:43 pm

LearJeff --
Just got the 12 MB one...
Beautiful!

Voidoid Surrealist · Post by **Voidoid Surrealist** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:14 pm

I'm also re-downloading for the 12MB version right now, so I can't wait to hear it!

Another real nice set of "original" (not the 80's Yamaha style) Fender Rhodes samples can be found at http://www.hollowsun.com/vintage/rhodes/index.html
It's 8MB unzipped, and has 3 velo layers, but you'll have to assemble it yourself. However, most of the work is already done for you.

And (although it's sorta OT) I just found another site with some killer free EP gigasamples (which can be converted). Check this out: http://www.sullivang.net/samples/

He's got a 8.7MB Wurlitzer EP203W, a 37.3MB Hohner Pianet T, and a truly killer 44.2MB Yamaha CP80 with 4 velo layers. Thank god he RAR'ed these beasts, it would kill me on my poor dialup! These are some of the best free EP samples I've come across so far, I can only hope he'll sample a Rhodes for us someday...

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:53 pm

i really like this sounfont; even though it's a bit noisy, and has some abrupt tonal changes, it still has that rhodes magic we all love. you know -- kinda like crossing a bell with a harp, and giving the result a couple of stiff drinks.

anyway, someone's gotta ask about licensing details, so what are they?

-- just another f*cking observer

Mr.Scarbee · Post by **Mr.Scarbee** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:36 am

learjeff wrote:I have Scarbee in the mail (found it for $100 on ebay

Hi Jeff,

This is illegal!! According to the license agreement you can NOT resell sample libraries. Therefore you can not buy it secondhand either.

The guy who sold you his copy could keep the original on his harddrive, right?

regards

blixa · Post by **blixa** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:44 am

learjeff wrote:Well, I did a quick knock off sampling of my 1977 Rhodes Mark I Stage piano, to check out methodology and learn the tools.

:snip:

If anyone knows a good free or CHEAP prog to convert Giga instruments, or edit soundfonts, I'd sure like to know. But I did say CHEAP, right?

yours sounds like a cool project.

with respect to free gig->sf2 conversions:
a couple of months ago, i used a demo version of a program whose name escapes me at the moment (name has the word xtractor in it, i think, and it was a nearly 10MB download). when i get home, i will look through my backups to figure out which program i used and post again.

////////////

EDIT: DUH me!

i didn't read the whole thread. you have got the converter demo. damn, i feel stupid.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE::: OR something.