Companies with Ridiculous Transfer Fees (Edited title)
- KVRAF
- 18434 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA
What is worse, transfer fees or not allowing transfers ? Just askin'........
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 4491 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK
Not allowing, but I thought that was all stopped ? Some law passed that made them have to allow it ? Or did I dream that.
Don't trust those with words of weakness, they are the most aggressive
- Banned
- 1792 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg
- KVRAF
- 18434 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA
There was some law passed in the EU a few years back but I don't know if it's enforced and I don't think it applied to developers outside the EU.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 4491 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK
Wasn't it the main reason Image Line started allowing transfers ? If I recall right, it was, which was a good thing tbh. But I think you are right, it was an EU directive which doesn't apply to anyone else outside. But allowing a transfer is better than not, but I think some of these companies could do with looking at the policy and make the fee more proportional to the item being sold.
Don't trust those with words of weakness, they are the most aggressive
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Perhaps not ridiculous in terms of amount, but the process - Vengeance / XPS Avenger!
First, you need to buy "license transfer" item in their shop (around 35EUR), seller needs to send the original purchase proof (invoice) to the buyer, then both the buyer and seller need to e-mail suport with their own and other party's info, then the seller needs to generate a text file from the plugin that's stored somewhere on HDD and send it to the buyer. In the end it didn't took that long to complete, but I've never seen a process as convoluted as this.
First, you need to buy "license transfer" item in their shop (around 35EUR), seller needs to send the original purchase proof (invoice) to the buyer, then both the buyer and seller need to e-mail suport with their own and other party's info, then the seller needs to generate a text file from the plugin that's stored somewhere on HDD and send it to the buyer. In the end it didn't took that long to complete, but I've never seen a process as convoluted as this.
- Banned
- 1792 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg
That is completely bizarre!antic604 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:18 pm Perhaps not ridiculous in terms of amount, but the process - Vengeance / XPS Avenger!
First, you need to buy "license transfer" item in their shop (around 35EUR), seller needs to send the original purchase proof (invoice) to the buyer, then both the buyer and seller need to e-mail suport with their own and other party's info, then the seller needs to generate a text file from the plugin that's stored somewhere on HDD and send it to the buyer. In the end it didn't took that long to complete, but I've never seen a process as convoluted as this.
- KVRian
- 633 posts since 11 Dec, 2004
It sounds crazy. really unbelievable. but its not the first time I hear about an oddity about them. thing is, they always take significant effort to post "justifications" in various forums.antic604 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:18 pm Perhaps not ridiculous in terms of amount, but the process - Vengeance / XPS Avenger!
First, you need to buy "license transfer" item in their shop (around 35EUR), seller needs to send the original purchase proof (invoice) to the buyer, then both the buyer and seller need to e-mail suport with their own and other party's info, then the seller needs to generate a text file from the plugin that's stored somewhere on HDD and send it to the buyer. In the end it didn't took that long to complete, but I've never seen a process as convoluted as this.
When I sold all my Vengeance products (I had all their plugins) - I bought an additional e-Licenser and transferred all licenses to it. then I just gave the buyer the dongle, without transferring anything. Why? too many cases where for a lost dongle you couldn't get your licenses back, and no need for any support whatsoever apart of the user forums. There's actually NO reason AT ALL to be registered with Vengeance except if you want to give them more money.
so we both saves at least 150 euro in transfer fees.
a typical conversation at Vengeance would be:
"Oh hear.. there's a guy.. he wants to sell.. out product!!!"
"what do you mean our product? we shouldn't allow this we must sell more licenses!!"
"he still wants to transfer... and he found a buyer! I say, lets make it hard on him... so it will be the very last time he even contemplates this!"
"sure... first thing, lets make it EXPENSIVE, then make it CUMBERSOME and then have it in a way which makes no sense at all and justify everything in our way"
- Banned
- 1792 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg
A dishonorable mention of 2C Audio has to be made:
Transfer of licenses cost 20% of their (quite high) retail prices.
Transfer of licenses cost 20% of their (quite high) retail prices.
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
That's similar to Waves's approach, no? All their plugins are eventually $29.99 which makes resale value even smaller, but the transfer fee is 5% of regular list price with a minimum of $10 and max $150 per transfer. That's pretty "clever" tooCalenberger wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:49 pm A dishonorable mention of 2C Audio has to be made:
Transfer of licenses cost 20% of their (quite high) retail prices.
https://www.waves.com/support/transfer-of-ownership
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- KVRian
- 1030 posts since 26 Feb, 2018
Yes. They try to make the math confusing and hide the WUP prices. So here's a quick review. If you buy a plugin for $30 that is "listed" at $249. WUP will be something like $15+, and the transfer fee $12.45. So if after a year of ownership you decide you want to sell the plugin, it will cost you around the same as the cost of it new. This basically means that the plugins are worth near $0 on resell, which is the topic of another Waves thread.antic604 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:43 pm That's similar to Waves's approach, no? All their plugins are eventually $29.99 which makes resale value even smaller, but the transfer fee is 5% of regular list price with a minimum of $10 and max $150 per transfer. That's pretty "clever" too
https://www.waves.com/support/transfer-of-ownership
So basically, in many cases the only way to resell a Waves plugin is to do it during a quiet period of no sales for that particular plugin, and hoping to sell it to someone that is not aware of Waves forever rotation of $30 prices.
Waves is among the worst offenders, but the theme is the same across a lot of plugin manufactures. They don't want you to resell your license because regardless of the law and the principles of our modern society, letting you have that right is inconvenient to them. So they come up with prices and schemes to try to make it as painful as possible or mathematically unfeasible.
It's important to research the policies of a business before buying plugins. You might still choose to buy, but making an informed decision.
- KVRian
- 1275 posts since 26 Mar, 2004 from UK
When did IL start allowing transfers?
https://www.image-line.com/support/faq.phpThe End User License Agreement (Section 6) clearly states we don't allow license transfers.
I wasn't aware they'd ever changed this policy?
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- KVRAF
- 1654 posts since 18 Feb, 2012
i believe Sonnox has some ridiculous transfer fees as well, first you need to pay ilok fee and than another fee directly to Sonnox, so two fees. Please, correct me if I am wrong!
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- KVRist
- 490 posts since 3 Feb, 2018
I remember fabfilter had a transfer fee, not sure if that’s still the case. Didn’t stick out as unreasonable to me though. A small fee is alright, especially for a smaller company I can understand it’s a hassle with administration and such.