Behringer VSTs

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excuse me please wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:10 pm Bax NL also sold a VC340, to my great surprize ;)
thrilling news, what has that got to do with vsts?

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Forgotten wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:56 pm
chaosWyrM wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:51 pm
Forgotten wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:50 pm
chaosWyrM wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:48 pm
Forgotten wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:14 pm
chaosWyrM wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:58 pm

why?

why "must" they have had confidence in those dates?
Because it makes no business sense to publicize random dates.
ive gone over this 3 times now i think. you keep ignoring the fact that they are, for all intents and purposes, forced to give a date before they can reasonably know what its going to be.
Who is your contact at Behringer who has confirmed this for you?
whos yours?
Do you always answer a question with a question?
no?
ImageImageImage

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Copy paste code from u-he zebra etc..and call it 'Behringer Beaver '

Imho , the world would be a better place without Behringer
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gentleclockdivider wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:55 pm
Imho , the world would be a better place without Behringer
because bringing quality affordable instruments to boatloads of people who wouldnt otherwise be able to afford them is a pretty shitty thing to do?
ImageImageImage

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It's the way behringer did things in the past ( to get where he is now ) that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth .
From a consumer's point of view you are 100% correct , I am not that kind of consumer
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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gentleclockdivider wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:10 pmIt's the way behringer did things in the past ( to get where he is now ) that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
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If they are talking about making complete VSTi, then I doubt they could make enough money from it to justify the effort. If they are talking about VSTi editor/librarians for their analogue hardware synths, then that's the kind of thing that will sell more hardware and be easy to justify to shareholders. I would be about 1000 times more likely to buy a Pro-One and Odyssey clone if I had some way of storing presets. (Yes, one thousand times more likely.)
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BlackWinny wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:11 pm
AdvancedFollower wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:38 am The market is already completely saturated...
No.

In wavetable synths and many pure software digital creation which are not emulations of hardware devices, you're perhaps right... and I'm even not sure of that because it is probable that many new ideas may come even in new kinds of synthesis derived from the wavetables.

And in emulations of old legendary vintage hardware devices, there are still lots and lots of legendary models which could be emulated.
  • There is room for emulations of other ARP models (a 2500, a really good 2600, an Omni MKII, a Pro-Soloist, a Pro/DGX, a Quadra).
  • There is room for emulations of Buchla models (Touché, for example).
  • There is room for emulations of other Clavia models (Nord Lead 3 and Nord Modular, for example).
  • There is room for emulations of Crumar models (Multiman-S, Performer, Spirit, and Stratus, for example).
  • There is room for emulations of E-Mu models (Mo'Phatt, Orbit, PK-6 Proteus, Planet (Earth and Phatt), for example, and the extremely complex Morpheus).
  • There is room for an emulation of the EDP Wasp (only NuSofting made one, but long long ago).
  • There is room for emulations of other Eka models (Rhapsody 490, Rhapsody 610, and EK-22 and EK-44, for example).
  • There is room for emulations of Ensoniq models (ESQ-1, KT-88, SD-1, SQ-80, I recall you that SQ8L has never been finished nor ported to 64-bit nor to OSX).
  • There is room for emulations Farfisa models (Syntorchestra, Soundmaker, Polychrome, M200).
  • There is room for emulations of Kawaï models (110F, K1, K5, SX-240).
  • There is room for emulations of other Korg models (Lambda ES50, Trident, MS-50, DS-8, DW-8000, Poly-61, Poly-800, MS2000).
  • There is room for emulations of Kurzweil models (K2000, K2500).
  • There is room for an emulation of the Logan String Melody II.
  • There is room for emulations of other Moog models (Opus-3, Sonic Six, Source, Taurus, Voyager...).
  • There is room for emulations of Novation models (Nova II, Supernova).
  • There is room for emulations of Quasimidi models (PolyMorph, Sirius).
  • There is room for emulations of Rhodes models (Chroma and Chroma Polaris).
  • There is room for emulations of many other awesome Roland models (RS-202, RS-505, SH-09, SH-5, SH-7, System-100, JX-10, Source, Taurus, Voyager).
  • There is room for emulations of other SCI models (MultiTrak, Prophet T8, Prophet VS).
  • There is room for an emulation of the Synton Syrinx.
  • There is room for emulations of many other Yamaha models (GX-1, CS-10, CS-15, CS-20, CS-30, SY20, DX1, DX11/TX81Z, RX5, SY-77, FS1R).
And so many other...

And there are requests and ideas for emulations of many of these gems of the past, here at KVR but also at Gearslutz, at Audiofanzine, at Rekkerd, at SoundOnSound, at MusicRadar, at MusicTech, on the Korg forums, at Synthtopia, etc.

So no, the market is not at all saturated. Neither in new pure software creations nor in emulations of vintage legendary keyboards.

There is a room for Behringer as well as for any other brand who would want to come in the software synth world. Their challenge is not in the choice of what to do... but in the best ideas to make a place for oneself among the others, and without destroying the diversity. The good market is not a market where every brand wants to be hegemonic and kill the other brands, a good market is a market where there are many brands in order to let the customers have the widest choice. It means that it is necessary to welcome the new comers who want to take a seat around the table, whoever they are, totally new or already known in other markets. And if we see accurately the market of the software emulations, we see that except some rare top notch legendary synths as the Minimoog and some rare others of these kind, a great number of the vintage emulations are made by only one or two developers at maximum. And as we saw above, there are tons of other legendary vintage synths which afford to be emulated.

Some people have today the stunning impression (and they claim) that everything has been done, in music hardware devices and in software plugins as well as in styles of music and in R&D or in general hobbies, in science, in the management of the society, etc. We can easily remind that in the XIXth Century many scientists and engineers as well as many politicians already thought exactly the same. Two centuries ago !

Too many people have the habit to think only with their own sight, as if their sentiment of exhaustiveness were shared by everybody, so forgetting that the world is made of a huge diversity in styles, in ages of musicians, in minds, in creativity, in wishes, in tastes, etc... or thinking that all the world think as them.

If everybody thought always as one think, so yes the world would be extremely overloaded (and extremely sad), and not only about devices. Fortunately it is not at all the case.

There is a future for everything, for the nostalgics of the past who would like to keep on playing their teenage beloved styles with emulations of the synths they couldn't afford decades ago... as well as for the young (and not all so young) creators who will always have new awesome ideas to keep active the creativity of the human brain !
I like the extensive field of vision,
without it there wouldn`t be overall progress and further development.

I can easily transmit that into the vst world,
the former languidly groaning of countless 1176 iterations
and now we are into very close hw version(s) including 1176 preamp(s)
plus a widely open area of not yet transposed hw devices.
(And just to include it, experimental or "modern" continuations).

To me, all in all things go into extraordinary directions never seen before.

Speaking of that and Behringer (or any other brand in that regard)
I see a potential on hybrids, hw devices with a port/gui into daws
to combine analog authenticity with the benefit of session recalls etc.

In the vst world I consider WesAudio 500 series as an example
and I would buy into something similar i.e a Behringer Model D with port/gui.

What`s your assessment due to vsti doability and affordability?
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Whatever Behringer decide to do, they have a huge database of excellent synths and companies to compete against so quality and price (Behringer prices accepted of course) are a must - also any new commercial vsti's will need to have something different for folk to open their virtual wallets.
I believe I can see a native virtual DeepMind on the horizon!?

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BlackWinny wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:11 pm
AdvancedFollower wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:38 am The market is already completely saturated...
No.

In wavetable synths and many pure software digital creation which are not emulations of hardware devices, you're perhaps right... and I'm even not sure of that because it is probable that many new ideas may come even in new kinds of synthesis derived from the wavetables.

And in emulations of old legendary vintage hardware devices, there are still lots and lots of legendary models which could be emulated.
Most of those synths are just variations of the same basic theme - 1, 2, 3 or more VCOs, DCO's, samples/wavetables or divide-down oscillators going through some variation of a low-pass filter (sometimes 2, and sometimes with other modes like high/band-pass) and amplifier, with some envelopes, LFO's and sequencers and other modifiers thrown in to alter the sound over time. Some might have a few interesting tricks that others lack, but what differentiated them back in the day were mostly their limitations, not the possibilities.
With many of today's modular VST's, you can adapt the signal flow and switch out the filter and oscillator types on the fly to go from an MS2000 to a JX-10 to a Voyager, minus faux wood on-screen (unless you also design your own skin for the plugin).
Some people have today the stunning impression (and they claim) that everything has been done, in music hardware devices and in software plugins as well as in styles of music and in R&D or in general hobbies, in science, in the management of the society, etc.
Well, your list mostly contains suggestions for emulations of synths that were made 20, 30, 40 years ago...

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Chapelle wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:57 pm "We at Behringer do not believe in “virtual analog”, VST’s or other creative names for digital sound emulations as we are of the firm opinion that you cannot replicate true analog sound through digital technology, and there are many technical reasons for this. To be very clear, this doesn’t mean digital synths or VST’s can't sound great, but it is just something we don’t believe in."
- Uli Behringer, January 2018 (source: gearslutz.com)
I've been semi-tempted by Crave lately but don't really feel it offers anything over my soft synths for double the price of the next soft synth on my list (Viper). Their 303 clone sounds no better than my software 303 from Image-Line (if I hadn't spent as much on it I'd maybe be tempted by cheap hardware, although they could at least have given it CVs like Crave to compete with advanced 303 software like AudioRealism's Bass Line Pro version, seems such a waste of time not to bring to hardware what software already does for probably a decade now?)

If they bring something new to digital synthesis it'd be good to see them fill the gap left by say Dmitry Sches synths becoming more expensive at PA (although definitely worth as much and Diversion 2 should be amazing). Would cheap Behringer VSTs punish individual devs further? Could they maybe take on struggling VST devs to create new VSTs including experimental synths? Hopefully. Would love to see a new synth by gol even if someone just takes him on as a consultant, I don't even know if Image-Line are doing that.

There must be technical things software can offer that hardware would struggle with, graphical envelopes on every controller name click for instance. L/R/M/S versions of all controllers too. Wild oscillator types that eliminate the need for wavetable by doing what Synthech do with WaveEdit's controllers but on the fly in the synth with graphical envs etc. All while musically modulating other oscs doing similar, add some TMT style artefacts if it helps with layers, maybe need cloud based processing for some of it. User drawn morphing filters of all varieties... If I was them I'd lay off the effects, there's external stuff for that unless they develop something new, then again I'm sure they'll be keen to own a presets market.

There seems to be a lot of negativity on their insta post over this, sad, surely they're doing it anyway and this is just marketing? I've suggested they do a hardware controller for it all if they must, though I expect Sonic Academy will beat them to that, albeit Behringer could maybe do us cheaper plastic MIDI touchscreen controller keyboard versions. Maybe they should make laptops too.
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"Too many people have the habit to think only with their own sight, as if their sentiment of exhaustiveness were shared by everybody, so forgetting that the world is made of a huge diversity in styles, in ages of musicians, in minds, in creativity, in wishes, in tastes, etc... or thinking that all the world think as them."

@BlackWinny

That's why innovators are firmly degraded by society. Innovation is not a game that one plays for fun. It's risky business.

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they could be making something original, ie not an emulation...

either way, it's always the customer who wins, so i don't see why anyone should be negative about it

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AnX wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:40 am either way, it's always the customer who wins, so i don't see why anyone should be negative about it
True dat.

If they make a quality product - buy it. If not - don’t.

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