nvrmnd

[himalaya]

If you succeed make it identical in Tremor, throw here the result please.
Just, i suppose make it via filter it's not the same unfortunately, but I would be glad to be wrong.

I'll give it a shot tomorrow when back in the studio (chilling on the sofa at the moment....)

In the mean time, here is a showcase of some powerful kicks in Tremor (this is not intended as self promotion, just wanted to show how powerful Tremor kicks can sound as it had a bad rep for not being able to do good kicks). Listen on headphones to hear the low end.

https://soundcloud.com/electric-himalay ... e-patterns

[c_voltage]

I'll give it a shot tomorrow when back in the studio (chilling on the sofa at the moment....)

Ok thanks, will wait.

https://soundcloud.com/electric-himalay ... e-patterns

Well, ofcourse those kicks not a bad either.
But, how to say, there is guessing in them.. the lack of such level of compound of "purity and tension" like in above mt bd example. Why do I think this is important..It seems to me that this ability, as a kind of very successful starting point, tending to a huge range of bd timbre formation. (And microtonic proves it in practice). While in Tremor, we rather run into some oversaturated / triangularity , ie some rough nature, which in the end compresses the range of variability to a certain intrusive character.
And all of this perhaps as a result of getting the sine by some bypass way with the lack of full (classical) control over it.
But I continue to believe that I missed something.

Added: Or by other words - let’s take a huge modulate (etc) Tremor's environment, and try to get the same level of diversity compared to the simplest microtonic engine - the result is hardly will be proportional.

[monophonK]

Drumaxx looks so cool. wonder if they'll do a sale might pick it up

40% Discount BF Sale

[Stefken]

If you want something totally out-there try Ephemere, an FM drum synth.

Yes, this one is really nice.

Ephemere really good drum synth (mainly due to FM not a much in market), but there are claims to it too - try completely disable built-in distortion\drive procession for different presets, and everything becom not so rosy. I mean that to a large extent here the body is formed thru post-processing, unfortunately.

Well, don't disable the drive then.

No, I'm not so deep into drum synthesis as you seem to be. It has a character of its own and a fun and easy workflow, yielding interesting results. That sells the deal for me.

(Repro can also be pretty boring without the effects).

[himalaya]

@c_voltage,
I had a listen to your kick from Microtonic now and can hear the type of kick you're after, a high pitch sweep kick reminiscent of early Trance kicks.

So, in Tremor you'd need to use the 'self-resonant filter' method to achieve a similar kick.
The main oscillator will not give you that sound, since as you have commented yourself, the sine wave is not available here.
The sub-oscillator could give us this sound, since it is a sinewave, but alas, its pitch range when modulated by the envelope does not extend sufficiently high enough to give us that very sharp, present transient. So, here I was able to get the sound into the same ballpark, but it wasn't close enough.

So this leaves us with the filter, which can create the sinewave and it can reach the correct frequency range when the cutoff is swept by an envelope. Interesting thing though: I found out that the envelopes in Tremor behave in a different manner to the ones in Microtonic, just different ranges and slopes, so in the end I had to use two envelopes on the cutoff (FENV - the main pitch sweep, SENV - the extra low end boost) to shape it and give it the right sound. In fact, I've only used this technique a few times (and mostly in Cypher) so this exercise has reminded me of it. I should use it more often.

Here'n an audio example. First Microtonic (4 beats) then Tremor (4 beats) and again. The Microtonic sound has a higher pitch sweep (which tbh, I'm not keen on) but notice the low end in Tremor and attack 'punch'.

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/ ... again1.wav

Having said that, I feel it would also be possible to do this sound with the sub-osc and this two-envelopes' trick.

[c_voltage]

@himalaya Thanks for spending time for it. Unfortunately start (attack) phase has definitely different character. The body - yes, a similar, but the general feeling is still quite different, again - in favor of microtonic. So, the task still actual. (I will try your template else for possible reproduction.)

Well, don't disable the drive then.

Yes, I can understand such a position, well, I don't argue.

[himalaya]

Really? The Tremor sound is just more meaty all round?

[c_voltage]

Really? The Tremor sound is just more meaty all round?

I would say that the body is deprived of that original "springiness" at the start, and possibly with a kind of boost on the bottoms. I would call it rather a kind of simplification, than meaty. Well, again, this is my feeling, I do not exclude that we enjoy by different factors of sound.

[himalaya]

Well, we were trying to get away from that 'triangular' and a saturated kick sound, in Tremor, right?

However, I take you comments on board and have just looked at the sound again, and here is another attempt.
4 beats from Microtonic, 4 beats from Tremor, and repeat:

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/ ... tTEST2.wav

What has changed is the env pitch range mod, but also, the amp 'hold' envelope stage has been reduced. This is a cool parameter that can give a lot of sounds, and in the first test example it gave a slightly 'longer' body decay, but in this example, it's reduced and thus it allows for the initial decay to come through with greater 'immediacy'. But again, there is no trace of any 'triangular' sound or saturation. A pure, deep, bassy kick. I think

[c_voltage]

Well, we were trying to get away from that 'triangular' and a saturated kick sound, in Tremor, right?

However, I take you comments on board and have just looked at the sound again, and here is another attempt.
4 beats from Microtonic, 4 beats from Tremor, and repeat:

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/ ... tTEST2.wav

What has changed is the env pitch range mod, but also, the amp 'hold' envelope stage has been reduced. This is a cool parameter that can give a lot of sounds, and in the first test example it gave a slightly 'longer' body decay, but in this example, it's reduced and thus it allows for the initial decay to come through with greater 'immediacy'. But again, there is no trace of any 'triangular' sound or saturation. A pure, deep, bassy kick. I think

Hmm, you know, yes - now better (a much closer). File please ?

[Ah_Dziz]

Having said that, this is not the correct way to make kicks. Using this method of making the 'fat sine' will actually cause some issues when making the actual kick.

That’s how the original 808 kick was made. Just a filter with the trigger used as an exciter and then mixed in with the filter output through a simple “tone” circuit.
I find this to be a pretty good way of making kicks on lots of synths that have good filter DSP. That being said, I would probably recommend Drumatic for anybody looking for one really versatile drum synth that will cover all their bases.
I’m drum crazy so I have almost every drumsynth on the market, but someone could easily get by with just Drumatic and then a decent little sampler. I really love using MuTonic, but without layering you can’t make very realistic x0x cymbals and hats.

[JoeCat]

I realize this is not helpful since we're not talking Ableton, but:

I haven't found a kick I couldn't make with Live Operator - it actually spoils me a bit, cause I get bored and hope I'll find something better just so I'm not staring at that little interface. You have 4 operators with complete control of the fixed phase position, any / all of which can be modulated by a dedicate pitch envelope, so the Microtonic sounds are quite easy to create. Filter drive and various saturation/distortion models are built-in, as well as the analog-modeled Cytomic filters. There are two noise oscillators (including a looped noise with phase adjustments), and bit-limited sine, user, and standard waves. There are a few things missing (no way to bypass the filter, etc., only the one pitch envelope, etc.), but that's true of any synth.

With the typical FM algorithms you can, for example, create 3 layers and use one pair for an FM top, one for some noise, one for the bass layer...

Its also great at virtually all other pieces of kit (the looped noise makes for great hats and analog-type cymbals), tuned toms, snares (only the inability to bypass the filter for a noise osc takes a point off), FM dings, etc. And low CPU, so can simply load an instance of each into Live's drum rack and have an entire kit with macros for adjustments / automation, as well as fx sends per voice).

Stick the Live Limiter on the end and it's insane - you can go from subtle to floor-banging with just the right amount of a little brick wall.

If Operator were part of Live standard, I would almost say it's worth the price for those. You can stick Drum Buss on it also, make a macro to tune your kick and tune your boom with the same control, and never browse for samples again.

At some point I'm going to create a bunch of Operator kit racks and sample them into my Electron Digitakt, buy a looper for my guitar, and be the coolest late-50's busker in North Carolina

[dangayle]

I realize this is not helpful since we're not talking Ableton, but:

I haven't found a kick I couldn't make with Live Operator - it actually spoils me a bit, cause I get bored and hope I'll find something better just so I'm not staring at that little interface. You have 4 operators with complete control of the fixed phase position, any / all of which can be modulated by a dedicate pitch envelope, so the Microtonic sounds are quite easy to create. Filter drive and various saturation/distortion models are built-in, as well as the analog-modeled Cytomic filters. There are two noise oscillators (including a looped noise with phase adjustments), and bit-limited sine, user, and standard waves. There are a few things missing (no way to bypass the filter, etc., only the one pitch envelope, etc.), but that's true of any synth.

With the typical FM algorithms you can, for example, create 3 layers and use one pair for an FM top, one for some noise, one for the bass layer...

Its also great at virtually all other pieces of kit (the looped noise makes for great hats and analog-type cymbals), tuned toms, snares (only the inability to bypass the filter for a noise osc takes a point off), FM dings, etc. And low CPU, so can simply load an instance of each into Live's drum rack and have an entire kit with macros for adjustments / automation, as well as fx sends per voice).

Stick the Live Limiter on the end and it's insane - you can go from subtle to floor-banging with just the right amount of a little brick wall.

If Operator were part of Live standard, I would almost say it's worth the price for those. You can stick Drum Buss on it also, make a macro to tune your kick and tune your boom with the same control, and never browse for samples again.

At some point I'm going to create a bunch of Operator kit racks and sample them into my Electron Digitakt, buy a looper for my guitar, and be the coolest late-50's busker in North Carolina

This is a great comment, friend. I just made a kick yesterday using Operator, since I knew it would take me forever to find the exact kick I needed. Normally I use Kick 2, since it is so quick and easy, but Operator is great. Have you tried the Color Limiter that comes with the free Creative Extensions pack? Really great for kicks.

[JoeCat]

This is a great comment, friend. I just made a kick yesterday using Operator, since I knew it would take me forever to find the exact kick I needed. Normally I use Kick 2, since it is so quick and easy, but Operator is great. Have you tried the Color Limiter that comes with the free Creative Extensions pack? Really great for kicks.

Thanks - will have to check it out! I’ve been lax about a lot of the packs and such available

[thagreatbelow]

I see a lot of mention of tremor but it seems to have been discontinued :/