KVR Audio

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:16 am

Post below sums it up

rlared · Post by **rlared** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:32 am

Definitely can see both sides of the argument here. I think Tone2 has to honor the original commitment made on KVR. I realize it's a shitty situation but you did say clearly a few months ago that purchasing Icarus would mean a free upgrade to Icarus2. It's not the users fault that you and your vendor were not on the same page about pricing.

Hanz Meyzer · Post by **Hanz Meyzer** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:34 am

DELETED

wltchris101 · Post by **wltchris101** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:37 am

I just want to add I feel the same. I was made aware through this thread that if I bought Icarus 1.6 now (it was some time last week when I read this), I would get the upgrade to version 2, which sounded like an impressive major upgrade, for free when it was released. I got round to demoing it a few days ago, decided I really liked it, and then bought it through the best deal I could find, which was from Best Service. To now find out I'm going to have to pay for what I was initially told was going to be a free upgrade leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth. And this was my first foray into Tone2 instruments.

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:56 am

It appears Markus was not aware that BestService is selling Icarus 1 at such a discount when he declared the update promise until he read the post here. I know that he is working very hard to get Icarus 2 produced to provide for his family and at great expense to his own health. He has given free update after free update and now is trying to make a little money with a full update while trying to be fair to recent purchases, something I pushed for a long time ago, but now I see that when he gives an inch everyone tries to take a mile. Everyone is trying to make it by, if you cannot afford the full price or upgrade price to suppprt this developer then perhaps Tone2 synths are much for you to afford. There are some excellent freeware synths out there if you are that pressed.

To those that purchased through BestService, who is ripping Markus off, I suggest you talk to BestService. They acted without his consent or knowledge. BestService ripped off both you and Markus. Markus is just trying to put a stop to it.Markus is a great guy who is willing to be fair, but do not take advantage of him.

Put yourself in his shoes for a minute?

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:10 am

Bold text always makes for a more compelling argument.

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:23 am

There is no argument, it is the truth. The only argument is if you are willing to accept the truth or not.

The bold emphasis is a reminder of empathy, which so many in today’s world seem to miss.

randygo · Post by **randygo** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:45 am

I just picked this up. It's a fantastic synth. Looking forward to the upgrade!

RichN · Post by **RichN** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:50 am

I also think it’s rather hypocritical of Tone2 / Markus Krause to publicly complain about Best of Service’s pricing strategy (using that to justify his decision to turn his back on customers who bought Icarus from them). Resellers like Best of Service have been doing sales forever. If Markus earns just € 20 per synth sold in the current Black Friday sale (as I believe he said), then I guess he makes even less money per synth from Best of Service’s 2 for 1 sales. And they have been doing those for years (I know that for a fact, because I’ve been tempted by those 2 for 1 sales several times). Obviously, those sales haven’t been a reason for Tone2 to publicly complain (at least, not that I’m aware of), to end their partnership with Best of Service or to incorporate a policy that only customers who shop directly at Tone2 qualify for any free upgrades (in this case Icarus 2). My guess is that the lower profit per unit was offset by the larger amount of units sold and that these kind of sales are still profitable for Tone2. That’s how sales work. My case is a perfect example of this. Without the current sale, I wouldn’t have bought Icarus at all.

What I think really happened is that Markus felt so much pressure from the complaints of some people who already owned Icarus, that he made an emotionally driven decision without really thinking it over. The idiocy of this all is that the people who complained don’t (financially) profit one bit from the decision that was made. They still have to pay the same upgrade price as before. I find it really off putting that some people even congratulated Markus on his ill informed decision (that caught people like me off guard, after the fact, and will for sure harm Tone2’s business), saying that this does them justice. What they really are saying is that if they can’t profit from this sale, it makes them at least a bit happy that other people can’t profit from it either. Really sad.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:57 am

Vertion wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:23 am There is no argument, it is the truth. The only argument is if you are willing to accept the truth or not.

The bold emphasis is a reminder of empathy, which so many in today’s world seem to miss.

So wise.

paterpeter · Post by **paterpeter** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:03 am

It's situations like this that distinguish honest businessmen from hobbyists. IMO Markus should have protected his new customers and maybe throw an extra bonus in for those who bought at full price (e.g. a soundset). Instead, he punishes honest buyers for taking advantage of a great deal. The issue is between Markus and third party vendors. Yet those who paid get betrayed. TBH, this does not deserve any sympathy or compassion from my side. How much do you guess are those who are getting screwed going to spend on other Tone2 products in the future? Probably nothing.

FapFilter · Post by **FapFilter** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:10 am

Well, at least in this thread there seem to be more ‘self entitled ramblings‘ on the ‘cheapskates‘ side than on the one of the existing userbase.
Of course this didn't go as expected (for both the developer and the potentially new customers), but i actually think it's still a fair trade.
And i don't say this as someone who is pissed that some people get stuff for cheaper than i did. I paid my €149 (or so it was AFAIR) for what i thought was worth it for me - and it still is. I couldn't care less if people could now get this synth for €1 or completely for free.
Also, Icarus 1.6 is still a great synth, even if 2.x builds upon it, but you definetly got your money's worth with it at such a great discount price - be happy with your purchase and make some noise (on the synth). 1.6 is no show stopper and if you need the new features of 2.x, you can still get them for an imo reasonable price

RichN · Post by **RichN** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:29 am

Vertion wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:23 am There is no argument, it is the truth. The only argument is if you are willing to accept the truth or not.

By the truth you mean your assumption that Markus Krauses side of the story is the truth. Please read my message above on former Best of Service sales and Tone2's apparent attitude to that and tell me where I'm factually wrong then.

RichN · Post by **RichN** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:31 am

FapFilter wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:10 am Well, at least in this thread there seem to be more ‘self entitled ramblings‘ on the ‘cheapskates‘ side than on the one of the existing userbase.

Yeah, why bother with nuanced and fact based arguments if it's so much easier to accuse people of being cheapskates.

dune_rave · Post by **dune_rave** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:35 am

One question: who creates the prices: users or developers? Stop whining about it!

did you see people posting angry letters to moog or to yamaha to lower their instrument prices just for some user?
point 2: instruments cost money, you have to agree with this. its not an excuse that you're poor.

Available now: Tone2 Icarus2.5 - Wavetable Workstation