Opinions on MassiveX

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
trance_lucent
KVRist
414 posts since 27 Sep, 2005

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:17 pm

I have a question about unison in MX. Is it global (so not only oscillators are multiplied but also filters), or this is just oscillators multiplying like Zebra/Hive have?

Hive/Zebra unison usually is optimal as it saves a lot of CPU resources, but sometimes global unison can be useful. Sometimes I'd love to have totally global unison, multiplying also FX section, allowing to get, say, unisoned distortion sound, but haven't seen synths with this feature...

Edit: Don't have a Massive and can't try a demo currently, but thinking about purchasing, that is why I am asking...

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3568 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:33 pm

EnGee wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:43 pm
3ptguitarist wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:33 pm
Where do think I should start with learning Massive X? I'm kind of a beginner at this.
I always start with the manual.
Massive X is too complex for the beginner if you take a deep dive into manual. Better watch some Youtube tutorials about sound design for this synth.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19246 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:16 am

trance_lucent wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:17 pm
I have a question about unison in MX. Is it global (so not only oscillators are multiplied but also filters), or this is just oscillators multiplying like Zebra/Hive have?

Hive/Zebra unison usually is optimal as it saves a lot of CPU resources, but sometimes global unison can be useful. Sometimes I'd love to have totally global unison, multiplying also FX section, allowing to get, say, unisoned distortion sound, but haven't seen synths with this feature...

Edit: Don't have a Massive and can't try a demo currently, but thinking about purchasing, that is why I am asking...
Look up in the manual ;) It's a global unison, but has some very nifty features I didn't see anywhere else.

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EnGee
KVRAF
5815 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:29 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:33 pm
EnGee wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:43 pm
3ptguitarist wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:33 pm
Where do think I should start with learning Massive X? I'm kind of a beginner at this.
I always start with the manual.
Massive X is too complex for the beginner if you take a deep dive into manual. Better watch some Youtube tutorials about sound design for this synth.
If someone can't understand the manual of Massive and Massive X, then he/she better starts with a simple free synth. I personally started with Synth1 to learn Subtractive synthesis and made my first presets from scratch.
There are tons now of good quality free synths to learn before jumping into Massive or Massive X. Anyway, for me Massive X is still easier than, say, Bazille which is far more complex than Massive (I needed a good tutorial by Groove3 to be able to grasp the different functions). But, even FM8 is more difficult than Massive (FM is always more difficult than other synthesis like wavetable or subtractive).

If you have good quality YouTube tutorials links, then by all means, write it to 3ptguitarist. I personally prefer the manual as it has deeper explanation :)
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3568 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am

If someone can't understand the manual of Massive and Massive X
I meant Massive X offers many peculiar features which are not relevant to 99% of users. If someone is just starting, he won't figure out what is important to make bread and butter sounds and what is not.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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EnGee
KVRAF
5815 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:21 am

Yes, this was my point! If he/she can't understand the manual, then he/she better off starting with simple subtractive synth! He can then translate what he/she learnt to Massive and expand it by reading the manual ;)

The manual is necessary really because IMO one should know most of the synth, otherwise why he/she bothers to learn it! Just use the presets then.
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.

chk071
KVRAF
22477 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:41 am

RobGee wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:15 pm
chk071 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:37 pm
This seems to be the logical starting point: https://www.native-instruments.com/de/p ... x/manuals/


RobGee wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:04 am
I never liked Massive or Serum but I do like Massive X. Great routing options and sound quality. Yes I’d like an extra oscillator and filter and the presets browser could be better but those aren’t massive issues for me.
I never really liked Massive much, but, Serum is alright really. Nice synth. Just too expensive, and, the no sales tactic doesn't help to boost my interest either.

It's really beyond me, once again, why such developers don't do sales. "I don't believe in sales" is kind of bullshit, when your synth doesn't sell much after 2 or 3 years, and you could sell 4 or 5 times as many copies, when you split the price in half.
I've never really looked at the price of Serum if I'm honest. I kept hearing people raving about it and tried the demo but found the sound too sterile and uninspiring, maybe if I spent more time with it but it just wasn't for me. With Massive X you can add some really nice character with the filters, feedback routing and effects etc, it reminds me a bit of Reaktor Blocks but with polyphony.
Yeah, that's why I like it so much. It sounds like a analog modelled synth, but gives you, at least partly, the felixibility of a typical VA soft synth. Dune is sort of in the same direction, it's just that i like MX's sound much better.

The more I've done with it, the better I can understand some of the GUI criticism though. I really think it would benefit from parameter value read out, and a bit more structured GUI in general.

Stefken
KVRAF
1838 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:55 am

rezoneight wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:13 pm
Stefken wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:10 am
Sinisterbr wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:42 am
I think its GUI gorgeous. Besides, MX has an excelent workflow. Given all its capabilites, it's still not difficult at all. They did a great job IMHO.
Ok, ...never quit your job to become a UI designer. Never.
Given that a UI being good or bad is pretty subjective, especially in something as complex as a synth plugin....care to share what is so bad about it? I personally love it. Gorgeous default skin.
There have been plenty of posts about it.
There is also quite a scientific basis for proper UI design and ergonomics nowadays, so it's not that subjective.

(The update did resolve some issues so the experience is certainly improved).

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3568 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:17 am

There is also quite a scientific basis for proper UI design and ergonomics nowadays
...which is?

Are you going to scientifically prove that people who like Massive X UI shouldn't really like it?
Last edited by DJ Warmonger on Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Functional
KVRian
773 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:18 am

Stefken wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:55 am
rezoneight wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:13 pm
Stefken wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:10 am
Sinisterbr wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:42 am
I think its GUI gorgeous. Besides, MX has an excelent workflow. Given all its capabilites, it's still not difficult at all. They did a great job IMHO.
Ok, ...never quit your job to become a UI designer. Never.
Given that a UI being good or bad is pretty subjective, especially in something as complex as a synth plugin....care to share what is so bad about it? I personally love it. Gorgeous default skin.
There have been plenty of posts about it.
There is also quite a scientific basis for proper UI design and ergonomics nowadays, so it's not that subjective.

(The update did resolve some issues so the experience is certainly improved).
Ah yes, "scientific basis for proper UI design", coming from a person who can't even understand how tab sizes are decided.

perpetual3
KVRian
1151 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:21 am

Please, let’s keep this thread open, and AVOID PERSONAL ATTACKS.

Functional
KVRian
773 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:24 am

perpetual3 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:21 am
Please, let’s keep this thread open, and AVOID PERSONAL ATTACKS.
It's not a personal attack to note the fact that this person has complained multiple times about "wasted UI space" because they didn't use an alternative where same space would have... nothing.

He can talk all he wants about UI design, but if he can't be more concrete than "there's a scientific basis for UI design", then we can only go by his previous words which demonstrate that he certainly is not aware of whatever that scientific basis is.

perpetual3
KVRian
1151 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:51 am

A couple observations about MX that I haven’t noticed elsewhere.

As someone who’s music is thoroughly influenced by the dub “aesthetic” and associated production techniques, MX seems to have taken a cue from plugins like Surreal Machines Dub Machines and included sends on effects. Coupled with gain, level and mix knobs almost everywhere, I’m creating patches, using modulation, that otherwise would have required extensive automation in a DAW template with a loads of track and midi routing and large send/return network. To be fair, Ableton makes this less cumbersome than it used to be, but integrating this approach deeply into the architecture is a simple design choice that opens up a lot of different possibilities. I suspect NI went down this path with cinematic or more contemporary pop (I.e. bass music) musical trends in mind. But if you’re into dub in all it’s flavors, MX is a fantastic synth. (I didn’t use OG massive, serum or other WT synths so I don’t know if this is a ubiquitous design choice or not).

As someone who also loves the texture of old samplers (TAL Sampler gets mad usages over here), MX allows you to impart a lot of that flavor. To me, it’s like a hi-fi take on a lo-fi sound, and using the techniques I described above, I can flow from hi-fi (modern, sharp, clean) to lo-fi easily in the patch. In other words, if you like the texture of samplers AND the dynamic range of modern digital synths you have that spectrum in MX.

Finally, MX makes a sick kick drum, and a lot of the drum/perc presets are fantastic.

Stefken
KVRAF
1838 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:42 am

Functional wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:18 am
Stefken wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:55 am
rezoneight wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:13 pm
Stefken wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:10 am
Sinisterbr wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:42 am
I think its GUI gorgeous. Besides, MX has an excelent workflow. Given all its capabilites, it's still not difficult at all. They did a great job IMHO.
Ok, ...never quit your job to become a UI designer. Never.
Given that a UI being good or bad is pretty subjective, especially in something as complex as a synth plugin....care to share what is so bad about it? I personally love it. Gorgeous default skin.
There have been plenty of posts about it.
There is also quite a scientific basis for proper UI design and ergonomics nowadays, so it's not that subjective.

(The update did resolve some issues so the experience is certainly improved).
Ah yes, "scientific basis for proper UI design", coming from a person who can't even understand how tab sizes are decided.
Like I said: show me your UI work. I hear a lot of big talk ... well show me some work.

You are also forgetting that these tabs are ALSO a design decision.
If you are using a system where it doesn't matter if you put a huge static image there or not, because the space is wasted anyhow, than this very fact is ALSO a design decision than has been made.

Zebra for example, also works with a modular setup, but uses the space much more efficiently and 'blocks' don't need to be of equal size. Same in Voltage modular. Just as an example of another design choice.
Last edited by Stefken on Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

Stefken
KVRAF
1838 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Opinions on MassiveX

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:57 am

Functional wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:24 am
He can talk all he wants about UI design, but if he can't be more concrete than "there's a scientific basis for UI design
I had the same remarks from an equally friendly person. Calling me names and such.
Until he saw my work. Now this person is very silent.

I can be abstract and VERY concrete. Because UI work in practice is concrete up to the pixel.
Big talk won't help you then.
Last edited by Stefken on Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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