Ableton is everywhere...

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
codec_spurt
KVRAF
3990 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:33 am

dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:23 am
You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
I didn’t see the video you are talking about...but wasn’t he just demonstrating HOW to do certain things? Those techniques are used all the time, on songs heard on a radio near you. It’s up to the producer to put the technique into musical context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoWqJtt3fg

That's a great tutorial. I was worried it might be using some new-fangled stuff from Live 10, but nope, it's from 2017, so that'll be Live 9 then.

Ableton never ceases to amaze me. I still haven't updated to Live 10 yet because I still don't even use probably 5 percent of what I already have (in 9). You can go crazy experimental in Ableton, but I do just use it as a standard recording machine a lot of the time, and it's great for that as well.

I'll probably upgrade to Live 10 when Live 11 comes out. I'm usually one version behind on most of my DAWs.

I'm going to try and build a template along the lines of what he was doing there in that tutorial. Nothing complicated, but I doubt I would have come up with that idea by myself. No MAX, no fancy plugins, just good ol' curiosity and creativity. Hopefully I'll be able to knock it up in Live 10 Lite (all I have on this machine at the moment).

Simple and inspiring stuff. :tu:
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3990 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:39 am

Enrize wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:05 am
Wait...Ableton Live? Is that a DAW with a broken PDC?
I think they fixed it didn't they?

Well, kind of fixed it, but not totally?

It's always hard to get a straight answer when it comes to things like PDC. In any DAW.

Did they ever fix it in FLStudio?

Then again, when it comes to some things, you can't beat the laws of physics.
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

chk071
KVRAF
22455 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:47 am

dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:17 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:08 am
X86 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:08 pm
tooneba wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:34 pm
The easiest and most idiot-proof DAW. It is born to be popular.
This, and it's probably the sexiest DAW as well.

No surprise it's the daddy of DAWs.
Ew... if that's your definition of "sexy". ;)
perhaps because 70 % of live video tutorials ar done by pretty women ?
Can't be the GUI, hehe. Although i find it decent. But, sexy is a different thing IMO.

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:00 am

dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:23 am
You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
I didn’t see the video you are talking about...but wasn’t he just demonstrating HOW to do certain things? Those techniques are used all the time, on songs heard on a radio near you. It’s up to the producer to put the technique into musical context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoWqJtt3fg
lol its awful :cry:

User avatar
Enrize
KVRist
385 posts since 18 Jan, 2017

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:00 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:39 am
Enrize wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:05 am
Wait...Ableton Live? Is that a DAW with a broken PDC?
I think they fixed it didn't they?

Well, kind of fixed it, but not totally?

It's always hard to get a straight answer when it comes to things like PDC. In any DAW.

Did they ever fix it in FLStudio?

Then again, when it comes to some things, you can't beat the laws of physics.
No, compared to Logic or Bitwig Studio for example, PDC in Ableton is still broken.

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:46 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:33 am

Hopefully I'll be able to knock it up in Live 10 Lite (all I have on this machine at the moment).

Simple and inspiring stuff. :tu:
Drum Rack and Gate are both included in Lite, so yes you will be able to recreate this :)

I agree that it's a very cool technique, great for choppy sound design heavy electronic music. I like to create multiple copies of leadlines in my psytrance tracks, each with different FX and then splice/como them back together until a single track. Being able to jam them in on the fly or randomly/generatively using follow actions or Live's arppegiator, is going to be a massive time saver and source of inspiration for sure.

"musical" is in the ear of the beholder, something many here don't seem to be able to grasp. If you like more traditionally composed music that's fair enough but a lot us like weirder, more experimental music (and the methods used to achieve said results), only difference is, we don't look down our noses at those who don't and try to claim our tastes as being objectively superior.
Always Read the Manual!

HitEmTrue
KVRist
53 posts since 25 Nov, 2015

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:07 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:33 am
dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:23 am
You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
I didn’t see the video you are talking about...but wasn’t he just demonstrating HOW to do certain things? Those techniques are used all the time, on songs heard on a radio near you. It’s up to the producer to put the technique into musical context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoWqJtt3fg

That's a great tutorial. I was worried it might be using some new-fangled stuff from Live 10, but nope, it's from 2017, so that'll be Live 9 then.

Ableton never ceases to amaze me. I still haven't updated to Live 10 yet because I still don't even use probably 5 percent of what I already have (in 9). You can go crazy experimental in Ableton, but I do just use it as a standard recording machine a lot of the time, and it's great for that as well.

I'll probably upgrade to Live 10 when Live 11 comes out. I'm usually one version behind on most of my DAWs.

I'm going to try and build a template along the lines of what he was doing there in that tutorial. Nothing complicated, but I doubt I would have come up with that idea by myself. No MAX, no fancy plugins, just good ol' curiosity and creativity. Hopefully I'll be able to knock it up in Live 10 Lite (all I have on this machine at the moment).

Simple and inspiring stuff. :tu:
Yes, looks pretty simple to set up...and a useful technique.

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:17 am

All jokes aside the result sounds like 8 years old using acid first time.

dupont
KVRian
828 posts since 23 Jun, 2007

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:07 am

HitEmTrue wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:07 am
codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:33 am
dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:23 am
You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
I didn’t see the video you are talking about...but wasn’t he just demonstrating HOW to do certain things? Those techniques are used all the time, on songs heard on a radio near you. It’s up to the producer to put the technique into musical context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoWqJtt3fg

That's a great tutorial. I was worried it might be using some new-fangled stuff from Live 10, but nope, it's from 2017, so that'll be Live 9 then.

Ableton never ceases to amaze me. I still haven't updated to Live 10 yet because I still don't even use probably 5 percent of what I already have (in 9). You can go crazy experimental in Ableton, but I do just use it as a standard recording machine a lot of the time, and it's great for that as well.

I'll probably upgrade to Live 10 when Live 11 comes out. I'm usually one version behind on most of my DAWs.

I'm going to try and build a template along the lines of what he was doing there in that tutorial. Nothing complicated, but I doubt I would have come up with that idea by myself. No MAX, no fancy plugins, just good ol' curiosity and creativity. Hopefully I'll be able to knock it up in Live 10 Lite (all I have on this machine at the moment).

Simple and inspiring stuff. :tu:
Yes, looks pretty simple to set up...and a useful technique.
that's so easy to set up that you must pay curses to learn how to do it. Live is king of business.

User avatar
Robert Randolph
KVRAF
2208 posts since 25 May, 2003 from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:40 pm

dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:07 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:07 am
codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:33 am
dupont wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am
HitEmTrue wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
dupont wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:23 am
You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
I didn’t see the video you are talking about...but wasn’t he just demonstrating HOW to do certain things? Those techniques are used all the time, on songs heard on a radio near you. It’s up to the producer to put the technique into musical context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCoWqJtt3fg

That's a great tutorial. I was worried it might be using some new-fangled stuff from Live 10, but nope, it's from 2017, so that'll be Live 9 then.

Ableton never ceases to amaze me. I still haven't updated to Live 10 yet because I still don't even use probably 5 percent of what I already have (in 9). You can go crazy experimental in Ableton, but I do just use it as a standard recording machine a lot of the time, and it's great for that as well.

I'll probably upgrade to Live 10 when Live 11 comes out. I'm usually one version behind on most of my DAWs.

I'm going to try and build a template along the lines of what he was doing there in that tutorial. Nothing complicated, but I doubt I would have come up with that idea by myself. No MAX, no fancy plugins, just good ol' curiosity and creativity. Hopefully I'll be able to knock it up in Live 10 Lite (all I have on this machine at the moment).

Simple and inspiring stuff. :tu:
Yes, looks pretty simple to set up...and a useful technique.
that's so easy to set up that you must pay curses to learn how to do it. Live is king of business.
Not everyone even understands what the concept they need to learn is, let alone how to do it.

These courses can be useful for some.
http://admiralbumblebee.com/
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Winstontaneous
KVRAF
1709 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:56 pm

Enrize wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:00 am
codec_spurt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:39 am
Enrize wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:05 am
Wait...Ableton Live? Is that a DAW with a broken PDC?
I think they fixed it didn't they?

Well, kind of fixed it, but not totally?

It's always hard to get a straight answer when it comes to things like PDC. In any DAW.

Did they ever fix it in FLStudio?

Then again, when it comes to some things, you can't beat the laws of physics.
No, compared to Logic or Bitwig Studio for example, PDC in Ableton is still broken.
How so? Can you be more specific?

Logic is no poster child for PDC, it doesn't handle plugins with thousands of samples of latency (like iZotope RX) properly at all, while the same plugins have no issues in Live. I got Live at 9.5 and know there was a lot of grumbling about PDC up until then.
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tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:17 pm

Just search. A bunch of explanation there. It's well known behavior ableton users are taking care of when mixing.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3990 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:39 am

PieBerger wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:46 am

Drum Rack and Gate are both included in Lite, so yes you will be able to recreate this :)
Gate isn't included in Lite unfortunately, but no big deal, I just downloaded my Live 9 - I was just being lazy.

So, it took me a while to reverse engineer this. About 4/5 hours in fact. It's not so simple even when you understand the concepts, because nothing was shown HOW to do this in Ableton, only WHAT to do. Still, I figured it out.

I've made up a template for you to download and you can load it in Live 10 Lite (I've checked) but you won't be able to save. It will ask you if you want to cancel or just go ahead and load the project. Load it. The Gate plugin will mysteriously appear and you'll be able to use it, but you won't be able to save what you do. You'll need a higher version of Live. At least 'Intro' which does include Gate. You may be able to swap out the Gate though for the included Compressor that comes with Lite - I don't know, not checked if that does 'gating' as such.

I knocked this up in Live 9 Standard, so anything above that should work and you will be able to save your work. Of course you can also load in your own samples (I just included a few random ones that seemed to work ok together).

In the video, Adam Maggs also takes this concept further and uses it for triggering FX and whatnot, but I didn't get that far. This template is just for the first part of the video where he was triggering audio loops. Still, it gives you the concept and you should be able to work the rest out for yourself. This was the hard part really, if you don't 100 percent know what you are doing (and I didn't).

This is the window you should get when you load the template:

Image

I jigged the drum rack about a bit so that Loop 1 is at the top and Loop 3 is at the bottom - it just seemed more logical that way, as opposed to them being 'upside down' in Adam's example.

I've also included some variations on the trigger devices, namely Simpler which I loaded up a white noise loop for. Changing the envelopes for the ADSR stuff obviously will shorten or lengthen the trigger time. Ideally you want a trigger time that corresponds to exactly how long the midi note plays for. But it's fun and sounds good to mess with these to 'tighten' up stuff or make it more 'legato' and drawn out.

I also included some varied presets for the Gate plugin - again, same concept. It should be enough to give you an idea. I think I got the main trigger times pretty accurate, but you can always mess with them yourselves via the ADSR controls.

The first midi lane triggers the first audio loop - channel 1, and so forth. Nothing to stop you adding more lanes. And of course this can all be triggered from a midi controller of your choice, as demonstrated by Adam in that video.

Another interesting feature of this template is the fact that the Simpler containing the white noise is muted, but when you get a pattern going, it sounds quite good to unmute it and blend it back in to the signal.

This is a great way to fill out loops with a bit of extra body. Don't be afraid to raise or lower the volume of the white noise either, it should still trigger the samples. You can even add FX such as reverb or delay if you want. I only realised they were loaded in the project a bit later, but they aren't doing any harm and you can use them if you want or set up your own FX to taste.

Here is the template:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/kig1jw2rg ... R.rar/file


All credit goes to Adam Maggs for the concept. I only worked out (best I could) how he got this all set up! It's a very creative and fun way to use Ableton - it reminded me a bit of the functionality you get in some of the Twisted Tools ensembles for Reaktor.

Anyway, it's all set up for you and you can see how it's all 'wired' together. Just load up your own samples and mess about with changing the midi notes to create your own new variations on your loops/samples.
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:02 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:39 am
PieBerger wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:46 am

Drum Rack and Gate are both included in Lite, so yes you will be able to recreate this :)
Gate isn't included in Lite unfortunately, but no big deal, I just downloaded my Live 9 - I was just being lazy.
:dog: I thought Intro and Lite were the same!
Always Read the Manual!

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3990 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:22 am

PieBerger wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:02 am
codec_spurt wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:39 am
PieBerger wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:46 am

Drum Rack and Gate are both included in Lite, so yes you will be able to recreate this :)
Gate isn't included in Lite unfortunately, but no big deal, I just downloaded my Live 9 - I was just being lazy.
:dog: I thought Intro and Lite were the same!

Yeah, I've often made that mistake as well - easy to do.

I just found out that there is actually a Liveschool web page dedicated to this tutorial:

https://blog.liveschool.net/ableton-liv ... ith-gates/

It seems very good and should be able to walk you through the most difficult steps if you were building this template from scratch. I missed that.

The hardest part that had me scratching my head was setting the Gate plugin to 'Drum Rack - 1 - Post Mixer', as an option for each sample/loop. Then of course setting each further loop to 'Drum Rack - 2' etc. etc.

You could probably do it another way but this way works for me.

Visit that link to Liveschool anyway - there is lots of extra information there that seems very useful.
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

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