Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
e-musician
KVRist
74 posts since 4 Feb, 2015

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:11 am

I agree with those that are deeply disappointed by V.1.5.0 forcing loyal and honest customers to connect their computers to the Internet every 90 days. This is more than annoying. But, in order to be fair to René and Manuel: Nexus 3 forces you to do so every 30 days (and therefore will not be interesting for me as well).

I have always been a big, big fan of Avenger - it simply IS one of the best synths out there. But as regards this new version (and I am only talking about that one "feature"), I don't feel appreciated as a customer anymore and, like TekSonic already said, I understand that I have to move on. There are lots of other fantastic synthesizers that let me do what I am really interested in: make music instead of dealing with computer or license administration issues.
Of course, I will continue using Avenger 1.4 - for which I own lots of XPs (that, like the synth, I officially and legally bought, BTW) - every now and then, but that's it.

Manuel - who I give a lot of respect and who has always offered his advice and help in the most polite way whenever I had a question - should really ask himself if his reaction to some customers' criticism was adequate. If customers give their feedback saying that this "calling home thing" does not work for them and makes the synth more difficult to use for them, then a company should at least accept and respect this kind of feedback - at least. At best, the company might consider possible solutions. Of course, it is their right to protect their software. But just saying, "That's the way it is, if you don't like it, then that's your problem," is - to my mind - not respectful behaviour towards loyal and honest customers.

[To be honest and fair again, I haven't read all the posts, and therefore do not know if some forum members were indeed impolite and rude in their wording.]

Why not give customers a choice? I have just had a look at the xils lab website. For every product, the customer can choose between downloading EITHER the USB-eLicenser version OR the iLok version (and here again: soft iLok or dongle).

Vengeance Sound do use the eLicenser for some of their products (I know because I own some of them, and this is because I officially and legally bought them). So why not offering an eLicenser version of Avenger and a CM version (soft or hardware)? Or offering a regular CM version and a more expensive version that does not "call home"?

As I see it, there will be two different kinds of Avenger users in the future:
- 1.4.x users (that are happy with the XPs they have)
- 1.5.x + users (those that are forced to be connected to the Internet).

Therefore I have got another question to 3rd party sound designers (like Banshaw, or others) and to skin designers like Stefken and godly:
Will you be offering your future soundsets/skins for both Avenger versions?

I am really sad about the developers' decision. But at the end of the day, it is their company and business.
As I said, Avenger is a really great synth.

PS, just out of curiousity: Are there any other major plug-ins that "call home" every X days (one-click online activation does not count and is okay IMO)?

User avatar
commodore
KVRist
461 posts since 19 Feb, 2013

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 am

I like Manuel's point about the licensing system paying off for them. It's their business. They need to operate that way. Avenger and all other vengeance products are amazing. They need to do what they can to protect from piracy. Anti-piracy measures keeps them making money and updating/creating products. And they have a system that works incredibly well at protecting from piracy.

I only work in my studio (no touring, no multiple locations, etc) and everything is great for me. I understand some are not in a situation where the licensing system is "perfect" for them, but can you complain directly to support about it instead of ruining a good thread? :ud:

I frequent this thread because I have a high interest in learning about Avenger, not reading complaints. But that's just me.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3767 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:01 am

commodore wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 am
I like Manuel's point about the licensing system paying off for them. It's their business. They need to operate that way. Avenger and all other vengeance products are amazing. They need to do what they can to protect from piracy. Anti-piracy measures keeps them making money and updating/creating products. And they have a system that works incredibly well at protecting from piracy.

I only work in my studio (no touring, no multiple locations, etc) and everything is great for me. I understand some are not in a situation where the licensing system is "perfect" for them, but can you complain directly to support about it instead of ruining a good thread? :ud:

I frequent this thread because I have a high interest in learning about Avenger, not reading complaints. But that's just me.
Indeed its paying off, with 30 eu licence transfer fee and so much FS topics in kvr market forum being created :lol: well at least for a short term :)

MachineClaw
KVRist
323 posts since 9 Nov, 2012 from Colorado, USA

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:15 am

to René and Manuel:

Thank you. Thank you for continually fixing bugs, answering questions, providing tutorials and features. I love the products that you provide me to purchase the use of.

Running an international business with a creative customer base can be quite challenging at times and I have seen time and time again both of you trying to go the extra mile for your customers, the love of your products, creativity, and the love of music.

I feel like a note of appreciation is needed for both of you in light of some of the negativity that both of you receive. Thank you again for all your continued efforts in providing creative tools! Keep rockin'

Stefken
KVRAF
1816 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 am

Has anyone figured out a way to reliably run the 1.4 and 1.5 version alongside? It would interest me to be able to run both versions.

Razzia
KVRist
364 posts since 21 May, 2016

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:51 am

edit - nvm, resolved

User avatar
kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2370 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:39 pm

I find the negative views here to be throwback & selfish.

I think Manuel (with Rene) has achieved the greatest soft synth ever made.

He's added value at every stage with world class expansions and amazing upgrades

- and and now he's taken synths to a new level.

Avenger must be the most copied synth design in the world today.

It's the standard.

And it's all been his vision, which he's had since the early noughties.

And now it's time to protect his business.

And some people don't like it.

And they keep going on and on as if they weren't heard the first time.

Let's celebrate Manuel's incredible work, and enjoy Avenger to the limits of our creativity :tu:
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger 1.5 + 14 xps, Dune 3, Microtonic drums, Pigments, Arturia 6, Atom & Impact XT, Izotope Neutron & Ozone, Valhalla, Spire, Sasquatch Kick 2, Panagement

jbraner
KVRian
1014 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:43 pm

Here's a question.
Does anybody store your own presets mixed in with the factory ones?
If so - when you upgraded to 1.5 - can you still access these?

I can't :-\

DigiPRO
KVRist
119 posts since 7 Mar, 2007

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free Granular update 1.2.0

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:54 pm

mysteryspy2001 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:19 pm
Just to let everyone know I first had an issue with the latest update 1.23 and when trying to open up avenger in cubase it took about 2 mins to load. I actually found the issue and in case anyone has the issue here is the fix

I remember installing Acronis 2018 image back up software and it also installs an option called active protection running in the background. I thought hmmm I will try turning the option off and now avenger opens up lighting fast.
The funny thing is that when the active protection option was on it did not affect any other vst except avenger. So if anyone has the same issue I had and you are running Acronis 2018 make sure the active protection option is off in Acronis.

I also let Rene know as he was trying to help out ,
I had and solved the same problem today but on Windows 10 Pro. The only difference is that I'm using the Acronis True Image 2020.

VPS Avenger took around 2 minutes to open its GUI. Crazy.

So in msconfig, I just disabled the 'Acronis Active Protection (TM) Service' - and voila! VPS Avenger loads super fast again.

Thanks to Rene for the super-fast ticket response.

SirkusPi
KVRist
306 posts since 14 Aug, 2012

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 am

kevvvvv wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:39 pm
I find the negative views here to be throwback & selfish.

I think Manuel (with Rene) has achieved the greatest soft synth ever made.

He's added value at every stage with world class expansions and amazing upgrades

- and and now he's taken synths to a new level.

Avenger must be the most copied synth design in the world today.

It's the standard.

And it's all been his vision, which he's had since the early noughties.

And now it's time to protect his business.

And some people don't like it.

And they keep going on and on as if they weren't heard the first time.

Let's celebrate Manuel's incredible work, and enjoy Avenger to the limits of our creativity :tu:
I think this thread fairly lays out the case for and against Vengeance’s conduct. I’m glad this thread will remain available to future potential purchasers, who can read up on it and decide for themselves whether they want to support a company that, however good the synth may be, changes product attributes midstream that are very important to some people (after having already taken those customers’ money), and whether the company's justification for imposing that change was sufficient.
Last edited by SirkusPi on Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

sircuit
KVRian
745 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:37 am

kevvvvv wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:39 pm
I think Manuel (with Rene) has achieved the greatest soft synth ever made.
That's a bit too much credit. Falcon is bigger and better in absolutely every aspect (while also offering lower than Avenger CPU and RAM usage): (way) more FX, more sound sources, better granular, more midi FX (and open to scripting), more layers, multitimbral. Same for HALion.

Avenger is probably the greatest rompler ever made, though.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2933 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:46 am

sircuit wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:37 am
Avenger is probably the greatest rompler ever made, though.
Oh crap. Don't start yet another fake-news "XXX is a rompler" meme...
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2019 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 10.5
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
12966 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:11 am

Let's not lose sight of the fact that there are a lot of great sounding synths created by talented developers that don't require the installation of third party software to protect their software.

The fact that Vengeance is apparently not as talented as those other developers and needs a third party copy protection crutch is not my problem.

I get it that Vengeance is trying to protect itself from theft. But I'm trying to protect my DAW from wonky third party protection schemes that run at start up and in the background and the developer has no control over.

If that offends thin skinned developers or sycophant fanbois I don't care one bit. I'll just keep supporting talented developers and add Vengeance to the list of developers I will no longer support.

As a developer if you make unpopular decisions then you're going to get unpleasant responses. If you can't handle that then there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out....... :arrow:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

SirkusPi
KVRist
306 posts since 14 Aug, 2012

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:55 am

Teksonik wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:11 am
Let's not lose sight of the fact that there are a lot of great sounding synths created by talented developers that don't require the installation of third party software to protect their software.

The fact that Vengeance is apparently not as talented as those other developers and needs a third party copy protection crutch is not my problem.

I get it that Vengeance is trying to protect itself from theft. But I'm trying to protect my DAW from wonky third party protection schemes that run at start up and in the background and the developer has no control over.

If that offends thin skinned developers or sycophant fanbois I don't care one bit. I'll just keep supporting talented developers and add Vengeance to the list of developers I will no longer support.

As a developer if you make unpopular decisions then you're going to get unpleasant responses. If you can't handle that then there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out....... :arrow:
+1. Perfectly stated.

tapiodmitriyevich
KVRist
373 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.5.0 update!

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:03 am

sircuit wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:37 am
Avenger is probably the greatest rompler ever made, though.
You're the most weird cinnamon dove I've ever witnessed.

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