Ableton is everywhere...

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
Spencer Maddox
KVRian
583 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:37 pm

What has actually happened here in
This thread.

What’s this about Ableton being a Ponzi
scheme?
College Flunkie
Preset Junkie

samsam
KVRAF
3002 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:38 pm

I'm still reeling that Ableton are apparently promoting their products. Sounds bizarre for a company to do that, no?

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:02 pm

Nice generalization, good tactic. :tu:

samsam
KVRAF
3002 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:22 pm

It's much less work than 'write hundreds and hundreds of negative posts about Ableton' approach.

I'm not pro enough for those kinds of tactics.

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 am

I don't think it's necessarily negative for them. Side effect of those marketing is already calculated by the company and beneficial effect exceed the backlash (at the moment). It depends on how you see things.

User avatar
DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3568 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 am

Spencer Maddox wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:37 pm
What has actually happened here in
This thread.

What’s this about Ableton being a Ponzi
scheme?
We have some guy that imagines things no one else understands or knows about, then weaves long and far reaching reasoning based on pure speculation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:03 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 am
Spencer Maddox wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:37 pm
What has actually happened here in
This thread.

What’s this about Ableton being a Ponzi
scheme?
We have some guy that imagines things no one else understands or knows about, then weaves long and far reaching reasoning based on pure speculation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
:clap: that about sums it up I think
Always Read the Manual!

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am

Forum is made for expressing opinion. Opinion consists speculation. So there is nothing wrong with it. Just deal with it. At least statistics are not speculation. It's just a fact. :hihi:

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 am

tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am
Forum is made for expressing opinion. Opinion consists speculation. So there is nothing wrong with it. Just deal with it. At least statistics are not speculation. It's just a fact. :hihi:
This also includes having opinions about other people's opinions, especially when they are as leftfield as Ableton running a Ponzi scheme or using Ponzi like tactics, with little in the way of actual evidence to back it up :shrug:
Always Read the Manual!

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:56 am

PieBerger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 am
tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am
Forum is made for expressing opinion. Opinion consists speculation. So there is nothing wrong with it. Just deal with it. At least statistics are not speculation. It's just a fact. :hihi:
This also includes having opinions about other people's opinions, especially when they are as leftfield as Ableton running a Ponzi scheme or using Ponzi like tactics, with little in the way of actual evidence to back it up :shrug:
I've been saying it's just an idea. No one said there is conclusion. Moreover, we never get evidence. All we can do is collect facts and build a hypothesis at most.

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:17 am

tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:56 am
PieBerger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 am
tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am
Forum is made for expressing opinion. Opinion consists speculation. So there is nothing wrong with it. Just deal with it. At least statistics are not speculation. It's just a fact. :hihi:
This also includes having opinions about other people's opinions, especially when they are as leftfield as Ableton running a Ponzi scheme or using Ponzi like tactics, with little in the way of actual evidence to back it up :shrug:
I've been saying it's just an idea. No one said there is conclusion. Moreover, we never get evidence. All we can do is collect facts and build a hypothesis at most.
and we've been saying or at least implying that the idea is so far fetched, that it warrants little merit without considerably more evidence. It's such an extreme and outlying opinion/speculation, with such little substance that of course it's going to be cross-examined and or ridiculed. You might as well have said that in your opinion Ableton use flying pigs to make their Push deliveries world-wide :ud: . One has to consider what ulterior motive or simply further story may be behind such a wacky opinion such as yours.
Always Read the Manual!

codec_spurt
KVRAF
4001 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:00 am

I tried to make that same template up for Studio One.

Image


There's probably a better way to do it. The problem is that S1 doesn't have a drum rack type plugin, so there's no way to route the one plugin (sampler) to different midi channels (pads) to trigger the various gates for the audio loops. I'd bet there is a way to do it, but after scratching my head for a bit, I just decided to do it the hard way and create a different sampler (white noise trigger) for each audio channel and loop.

The problem is that they are now all on different midi tracks, so you can't see them all at once in one window, theoretically, but of course you can group them all together (as shown above) so no big deal. I put the first audio trigger on C3, then the one for the audio channel below it on B2, then A#2. So it's a very similar set up to the template for Ableton.

This method works great in S1, but it's a lot more elegant and straightforward in Ableton with Drum Racks. You can trigger 16 different midi lanes in Drum Racks from the one window and plugin. Still not figured out how to do this in S1 yet. Interested to know if it can be done.

Anyway, the mixer and plugin set up looks a bit like this:

Image


I grouped the midi triggers in to a Folder container for a bit of tidyness, but it's not necessary. I used the standard Gate plugin in S1. It worked out of the box and provides all the controls you would expect to tweak it easily. Which I did - there's a few variations there if you look.

The Sampler is just loaded with the same white noise loop I made up for Ableton. No extra work needed to get it to work. Very simple set up that took me about 20 minutes to figure out and about another 5/6 hours to implement, but really only that long as I started playing about and messing with other stuff.

One thing that is a nice quick variation to do is to change to 'Ducking' on the Gate. The triggers then work in reverse. As you would expect. I'd imagine the Ableton Gate has this feature as well somewhere.

It's not such a flexible set up as Ableton though. You can't Solo tracks to hear them. You have to Mute the other tracks. It will be obvious why when you see how I've set it up. I'd like to come back to this idea again and see if I can work out a better way of doing things. But really, this works very well and behaves as expected.

Try this with your own loops, and put some FX on the inserts. Waves Renaissance Reverb works really nicely on the Sampler white noise channels. Again don't be afraid to blend a bit of white noise back in with your audio loops. The Reverb can make the white noise longer and that changes the trigger timing of the loops which is an interesting effect in itself.


This is the Template if you want to download it:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wvg1wl047 ... E.zip/file

(instructions included)
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

PieBerger
KVRian
544 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:06 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:00 am
I tried to make that same template up for Studio One.

Image


There's probably a better way to do it. The problem is that S1 doesn't have a drum rack type plugin, so there's no way to route the one plugin (sampler) to different midi channels (pads) to trigger the various gates for the audio loops. I'd bet there is a way to do it, but after scratching my head for a bit, I just decided to do it the hard way and create a different sampler (white noise trigger) for each audio channel and loop.

The problem is that they are now all on different midi tracks, so you can't see them all at once in one window, theoretically, but of course you can group them all together (as shown above) so no big deal. I put the first audio trigger on C3, then the one for the audio channel below it on B2, then A#2. So it's a very similar set up to the template for Ableton.

This method works great in S1, but it's a lot more elegant and straightforward in Ableton with Drum Racks. You can trigger 16 different midi lanes in Drum Racks from the one window and plugin. Still not figured out how to do this in S1 yet. Interested to know if it can be done.

Anyway, the mixer and plugin set up looks a bit like this:

Image


I grouped the midi triggers in to a Folder container for a bit of tidyness, but it's not necessary. I used the standard Gate plugin in S1. It worked out of the box and provides all the controls you would expect to tweak it easily. Which I did - there's a few variations there if you look.

The Sampler is just loaded with the same white noise loop I made up for Ableton. No extra work needed to get it to work. Very simple set up that took me about 20 minutes to figure out and about another 5/6 hours to implement, but really only that long as I started playing about and messing with other stuff.

One thing that is a nice quick variation to do is to change to 'Ducking' on the Gate. The triggers then work in reverse. As you would expect. I'd imagine the Ableton Gate has this feature as well somewhere.

It's not such a flexible set up as Ableton though. You can't Solo tracks to hear them. You have to Mute the other tracks. It will be obvious why when you see how I've set it up. I'd like to come back to this idea again and see if I can work out a better way of doing things. But really, this works very well and behaves as expected.

Try this with your own loops, and put some FX on the inserts. Waves Renaissance Reverb works really nicely on the Sampler white noise channels. Again don't be afraid to blend a bit of white noise back in with your audio loops. The Reverb can make the white noise longer and that changes the trigger timing of the loops which is an interesting effect in itself.


This is the Template if you want to download it:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wvg1wl047 ... E.zip/file

(instructions included)
:clap: great effort! Was it more or less fun and or intuitive than setting it up in Live :)
Always Read the Manual!

tooneba
KVRian
1226 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:11 am

PieBerger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:17 am
tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:56 am
PieBerger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 am
tooneba wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 am
Forum is made for expressing opinion. Opinion consists speculation. So there is nothing wrong with it. Just deal with it. At least statistics are not speculation. It's just a fact. :hihi:
This also includes having opinions about other people's opinions, especially when they are as leftfield as Ableton running a Ponzi scheme or using Ponzi like tactics, with little in the way of actual evidence to back it up :shrug:
I've been saying it's just an idea. No one said there is conclusion. Moreover, we never get evidence. All we can do is collect facts and build a hypothesis at most.
and we've been saying or at least implying that the idea is so far fetched, that it warrants little merit without considerably more evidence. It's such an extreme and outlying opinion/speculation, with such little substance that of course it's going to be cross-examined and or ridiculed. You might as well have said that in your opinion Ableton use flying pigs to make their Push deliveries world-wide :ud: . One has to consider what ulterior motive or simply further story may be behind such a wacky opinion such as yours.
I hear your opinion. But you don't need to think on behalf of others.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
4001 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:55 am

PieBerger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:06 am

:clap: great effort! Was it more or less fun and or intuitive than setting it up in Live :)

It was a bit more intuitive to do it in S1, albeit a bit more hassle because of the lack of Drum Racks. This meant that I had to create a separate 'trigger' for each audio loop. No big deal. But a Drum Rack type plugin would have made it easier.

At the end of the day, S1 works to a traditional mixer type paradigm, where as Ableton is a little 'different' shall we say. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

But it was a lot of fun as well and I ended up messing about with ducking, putting FX on inserts, making up different midi trigger patterns, so I really got distracted. In a good way.

The great thing is, anyone can now load up this template and use it. They can change it to whatever they like. Or they can use it to figure out how stuff works if they are a noob.

After a while you just forget what DAW you are in and focus on making music. There's a lot of creative potential with these templates.


Ableton:
More elegant and streamlined and efficient when it is set up. Midi all on one 'Track'.

Studio One:
More logical and easier to set up, but takes longer because it doesn't have Drum Racks.


I'll probably make this template up for Cubase Pro as well. And I think EnergyXT2 would also be very easy.

I probably won't bother with FLStudio and REAPER though. It would be doable, but a bit more hassle. It's not how I tend to use those DAWs anyway.

Having these for just Ableton and Studio One is enough to be going on with!
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”