Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

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e-musician wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:11 pm Therefore I have got another question to 3rd party sound designers (like Banshaw, or others) and to skin designers like Stefken and godly:
Will you be offering your future soundsets/skins for both Avenger versions?
Focusing on 1.5... The added sound design possibilities with the new analog filters and the Impulse are really attractive.
Modern Analog and Sapphire expansion packs will forever be 1.4.10 compatible, whilst also working well on 1.5. But any new packs will be 1.5+ compatible only.

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Still, Avenger has a performance issue: Heavy CPU spikes, which should not happen in realtime DSP. The team is ignoring this from V1.0 on. They even stated false arguments, blamed the users and are displaying it improperly in the Avenger's CPU meter (only showing average). This makes Avenger not the great workstation synth, me and a lot of others hoped for. You cannot use it properly with many instances, at least not at a normal latency.

Surely Avenger has a great structure, very good sound, a ton of presets and waves, and pro fx. I am happy at least that v1.5 now does not seem to crash anymore. But those nasty CPU spikes... Such spikes would be considered as "beta status" by any other developer. That's why a Zebra 2 or a Falcon is a much better choice.

The whole communication could be much better organised, e.g. using a real forum, using a bugtracker software (there the dev could set a status to each issue, even a "WON'T FIX"). In the end it is the developer team's behaviour which counts in a lot. What I read here was a lot ignorance. And Facebook sucks.

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Hanz Meyzer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:54 pm Still, Avenger has a performance issue: Heavy CPU spikes, which should not happen in realtime DSP. The team is ignoring this from V1.0 on. They even stated false arguments, blamed the users and are displaying it improperly in the Avenger's CPU meter (only showing average). This makes Avenger not the great workstation synth, me and a lot of others hoped for. You cannot use it properly with many instances, at least not at a normal latency.

Surely Avenger has a great structure, very good sound, a ton of presets and waves, and pro fx. I am happy at least that v1.5 now does not seem to crash anymore. But those nasty CPU spikes... Such spikes would be considered as "beta status" by any other developer. That's why a Zebra 2 or a Falcon is a much better choice.

The whole communication could be much better organised, e.g. using a real forum, using a bugtracker software (there the dev could set a status to each issue, even a "WON'T FIX"). In the end it is the developer team's behaviour which counts in a lot. What I read here was a lot ignorance. And Facebook sucks.
You are right.
Look at Tone2 Icarus 2 .
the "1 KEY HOLD" preset category.
let's take the preset "2050 Venus MF"
Just 8%-12% of the cpu.
Very low cpu and hugh sound quality.
Parawave Rapid , low cpu.
it's just bad coding of Vengeance Avenger.

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kevvvvv wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 pm I find the negative views here to be throwback & selfish.
I think Manuel (with Rene) has achieved the greatest soft synth ever made.
He's added value at every stage with world class expansions and amazing upgrades
- and and now he's taken synths to a new level.
Avenger must be the most copied synth design in the world today.
It's the standard.
Chill. It's far from the greatest, and even if it's on the right track there are a lot of things that are holding it back from being excellent.
Right now it's basically an editable Nexus, it has potential for actual sound design but it's not a synth that incentivize creativity, but rather preset browsing.
How many expansions have been released since Avenger came out compared to additions made to the synth itself? Most additions made to the core synth are functional to the making of new preset packs, and most feature ideas that can set it above the competition are set back because they are working on expansions, or simply "it's not a priority". In all fairness they did add pan compensation for unison, which I was asking for, but beside that it's still mostly functions for "press to play" use (arp improvement, and now multiloop). I bought Avenger when they implemented the granulizer, hoping that they would keep focusing on that kind of feature implementation and improvement, but I was wrong. No regrets though, because I've used Avenger a lot, and probably knowing it so well is what makes its many little flaws so big. And it's something devs themselves will never realize, because you know, every ugly son is the most handsome to his mothers' eyes. And, of course, to those who use Avenger like they use Nexus.

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kevvvvv wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 pmAvenger must be the most copied synth design in the world today.
What!? Avenger itself copied most of its features from existing synths (just to name some: fft/harmonics of the waveform by e.g. FL Sytrus, waveform manipulation by Spire, wavetable & granular from countless other synths, a drumsequencer in a pluin isn't new either, drag'n'drop modulation by e.g. Massive). Even parawave Rapid got released before it and was already a 1-finger-preset and workstation synth and btw. way more tested and stable, not a paid beta plugin. Don't get your point, but maybe you could show us what makes it the most copied design in the world. :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tilly wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:51 pm
kevvvvv wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 pmAvenger must be the most copied synth design in the world today.
What!? Avenger itself copied most of its features from existing synths (just to name some: fft/harmonics of the waveform by e.g. FL Sytrus, waveform manipulation by Spire, wavetable & granular from countless other synths, a drumsequencer in a pluin isn't new either, drag'n'drop modulation by e.g. Massive). Even parawave Rapid got released before it and was already a 1-finger-preset and workstation synth and btw. way more tested and stable, not a paid beta plugin. Don't get your point, but maybe you could show us what makes it the most copied design in the world. :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:
False!
It’s a well known fact all those competitors stole from Avenger.
Way back in 2006 when developing massive NI sent secret spy’s to vengeance HQ and stole
The secret to their new synth, Avenger.
They stole the Drag and Drop Modulation. The One page Interface. And the Use of Wavetables.
Even the name, Massive, secretly stood for “project Massive Screwover”
Even worse they sent the secrets to Avenger to other companies. All to kill the avenger before it began, as they knew it to be too powerful.
Alchemy stole its Granular abilities.
Synthmaster stole its FM
Serum stole its Filters.
And Falcon stole Its sampler.

It was a well coordinated brutal and sophisticated attack.
It took vengeance 10 years to recover.
But they couldn’t be held down,
Because soon AVENGER rose Again! to destroy those who stole all its features.
The post above this is likely bait, viewer discretion is advised.

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:lol: that killed me :lol: :hug:

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kevvvvv wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 pm I find the negative views here to be throwback & selfish.

...

And now it's time to protect his business.

And some people don't like it.

And they keep going on and on as if they weren't heard the first time.
Nobody in this thread has voiced any objection to "protecting their business".

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Cmon guys...
All coffeemashines coming from Thompson right? Other mashines doing tea and milk?
All cars coming from benz?

There is always an origin of something. Wavetable, Multisample, Drumcomputers etc...
Could give you thousands of examples here.

If you don't like the synth because of a high CPU usage, just sell it or dont buy it.
For me, Avenger isn't the Live Performance Synth but i can create incredible good sounds in it and create multisamples from it.

I love the easy workflow and the drag and drop possibilities.
So if you want to find ways to save some CPU you know there are ways to do... Freeze or multisample it or whatever.

But most customers wants HighQuality presets from scratch and wonder why it needs lot CPU... :dog:
Intel I9 9900X / Asus Prime X299-A / 32 GB DDR 4 / NVidia Geforce RTX 2080 / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 / Win 10 Pro 64 Bit / Ableton Live 11 64bit / Reason 11

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ReboundAudio wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 pmBut most customers wants HighQuality presets from scratch and wonder why it needs lot CPU... :dog:
If there are other plugins like Rapid which can build HQ presets (pretty similar as it's obviously not only the same sound designers but also a very very close concept to Avenger) without grilling the CPU, there's a legitimate reason to ask why it's different here (despite already doing "optimizations" like keeping 1ms process buffers which introduce timing issues).

I get that some like that synth very much. But that's not a reason to praise it with false statements, swipe away all valid criticism or problem the others have.

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1.5.4 changelog

- fixed issue with new init preset detected as outdated
- fixed issue with latency-notification to the daw
- Midiwars is working again!
- wavetables and shapes from the freebies section (AKWF / Weidner WTs) can now be used again (redownload new version from our website)

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DPhil wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:03 pm
ReboundAudio wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 pmBut most customers wants HighQuality presets from scratch and wonder why it needs lot CPU... :dog:
If there are other plugins like Rapid which can build HQ presets (pretty similar as it's obviously not only the same sound designers but also a very very close concept to Avenger) without grilling the CPU, there's a legitimate reason to ask why it's different here (despite already doing "optimizations" like keeping 1ms process buffers which introduce timing issues).

I get that some like that synth very much. But that's not a reason to praise it with false statements, swipe away all valid criticism or problem the others have.
Rapid doesn't offers the same amount of effects as Avenger do. But of course Rapid sounds good. But Avenger have way more possibilities.
Intel I9 9900X / Asus Prime X299-A / 32 GB DDR 4 / NVidia Geforce RTX 2080 / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 / Win 10 Pro 64 Bit / Ableton Live 11 64bit / Reason 11

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ReboundAudio wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:13 pm
DPhil wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:03 pm
ReboundAudio wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 pmBut most customers wants HighQuality presets from scratch and wonder why it needs lot CPU... :dog:
If there are other plugins like Rapid which can build HQ presets (pretty similar as it's obviously not only the same sound designers but also a very very close concept to Avenger) without grilling the CPU, there's a legitimate reason to ask why it's different here (despite already doing "optimizations" like keeping 1ms process buffers which introduce timing issues).

I get that some like that synth very much. But that's not a reason to praise it with false statements, swipe away all valid criticism or problem the others have.
Rapid doesn't offers the same amount of effects as Avenger do. But of course Rapid sounds good. But Avenger have way more possibilities.
I would not say “way” more.
Rapid can’t yet do granular, and the sampling could get some extra editing added to it, but what it does do well it does VERY well.

Avenger does a lot of things Good but nothing fantastic. And that’s one of my issues with it.

I’ve kinda developed a system where I use synths for their strengths. Rapid and Serum for Wavetables, Falcon for sampling , Diva/Repro for Emulation. Alchemy for presets and Granular/Additive. FM8 and a sprinkle of Synthmaster for FM.
Heck with all the presets I’ve acquired I use Sylenth1 as a Rompler basically.

And it all kinda works together.

Avenger is the Jack of all trades but the master of none for me. So I have trouble finding it a place in my lineup..

That being said I would say it’s a great synth, especially If somone was just starting. Not because it’s easy persay but because it covers virtually every base you’d ever need to cover to make sound.
The post above this is likely bait, viewer discretion is advised.

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tapekiller wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:41 pm Chill. It's far from the greatest, and even if it's on the right track there are a lot of things that are holding it back from being excellent.
Right now it's basically an editable Nexus, it has potential for actual sound design but it's not a synth that incentivize creativity, but rather preset browsing.
You should seriously consider stepping out of your bubble and considering that just because YOU can't use something creatively doesn't mean nobody else can. For YOU it's a preset engine that doesn't encourage YOU to design complex sounds. But oh man, it's absolutely capable of being a sound design powerhouse. Obviously not for you, you've made that clear. But this bogus assertion that "because I can't use it that way, nobody can" is selfish hyperbole at its worst.

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msvs wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:12 pm 1.5.4 changelog
- fixed issue with latency-notification to the daw
Thank you and Rene!

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