What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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jancivil
KVRAF
19339 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:36 pm

toonertik wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:51 pm
I have always enjoyed "Eastern" music and rhythms .. the tablas ... wow...
Are you gonna try any thing like that... I know you can do some seriously interesting drums... ;)
I have Indian-influenced stuff but scale-wise kinda exotic. Lots of tabla tho
Thanks
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jancivil
KVRAF
19339 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:48 pm

This thread looked such a clusterfuck of wrongness initially I felt this board was kinda just hopeless. Bleak

Carry on tho
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Functional
KVRian
773 posts since 26 Oct, 2011

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:20 pm

jancivil wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:29 pm
“You’re not doing yourself a service to ‘theorize’ outside of practice, it’s just talk.“

That is until you know more. The bit regarding ET is non-sequitur and made up a problem quite unnecessarily.
I didn't really think that the ET poses any particular problems (and I don't have any issues using minor, well, anymore). I've been just curious to see where this misconception of there being "three different minors" comes from because aside from speculation about common practice period composers mindset (and it is just speculation in this topic), nothing supports it. Beethoven, among others, used something that is described as "melodic minor" but when he described the minor, he didn't talk about "three separate minors", just about the sixth degree being problematic and then there's the V.

So as far as I understand, we're on the same camp here in this topic; there's just one minor tonality defined by the third degree in particular and any further alterations depend on whatever you wish to achieve with it, not on any fixed notion of a scale (this is the way I see it, that is; not necessarily how you see it)

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jancivil
KVRAF
19339 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:03 am

Lotta showing off by people just making avoidable mistakes lately
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Forgotten
KVRAF
7222 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:13 am

Functional wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:20 pm
I didn't really think that the ET poses any particular problems
It depends which instrument you play and which culture your music is based in.

If you raise the minor 7th (flat compared to JI) to a major 7th (sharp compared to JI) it’s going to be noticeably ‘wrong’ to some musicians in a different way.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19339 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:29 am

Yes, but melodic minor et al will just be differently expressive; the sitar an object lesson. The intervals there belong to a parent raga, thaat & def. not ET... and I don’t think many listeners hear this... I pretty much do, but does it work is my question.

So, I don’t know who’s bugging. All the fusion of Indian w. the west...
Didn’t stop Ravi Shankar from making a concerto w. Western orch, NB
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jancivil
KVRAF
19339 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:40 am

Functional wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:20 pm
Beethoven, among others, used something that is described as "melodic minor" but when he described the minor, he didn't talk about "three separate minors", just about the sixth degree being problematic and then there's the V.

So as far as I understand, we're on the same camp here in this topic; there's just one minor tonality defined by the third degree in particular and any further alterations depend on whatever you wish to achieve with it, not on any fixed notion of a scale (this is the way I see it, that is; not necessarily how you see it)
I agree. Jafo put specific before general but tonality in the strict sense is major or minor, period.
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currentsound
KVRer
29 posts since 18 Nov, 2019

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:24 am

Harmonic minor was used a lot during the Motown period. It's not that common to hear a song on the radio in harmonic minor anymore but some Latin/Spanish songs are in harmonic minor. If you manage to write a good song in harmonic minor, it instantly stands out as different. I just finished producing an album for a client with a song that was in harmonic minor. He ended up using it as the single. He thought it was just going to be a filler track until I added a bunch of harmonies and counter melodies in harmonic minor and it completely changed the feel of the song. It's not released yet but eventually it might end up on the Current Sound website after he releases it.

Jojoboy
KVRer
6 posts since 14 Nov, 2019

Re: What is the point of harmonic and melodic minor?

Post Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:20 am

Interesting stuff, I’m just (refreshing) learning again all these things. Nice!

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