Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
JoaquinAce
KVRist
309 posts since 8 Apr, 2018 from SC, USA

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:08 am

I mentioned this is another thread but I actually sold Ableton Live 10 Suite and bought Bitwig (blasphemy!!). Before the KVR mass with their burning keytars, burn me at the stake outside Ableton HQ, it was mainly a decision that I just work faster in bitwig. Something about my hand-eye coordination works and what my brain assumes I should be clicking on. It might sound weird to some, but I started out on Ableton Live, so its not like I didn't spend a lot of time in Live. I use Bitwig for mainly sound design and some mixing. The majority of my final mixing I do in Cubase. However, when I make tracks that need constant, subtle evolving (dark techno for example), it is super easy to set up in bitwig with the modulation possibilities. Not saying Live or Cubase can't do it, just that it is faster for me personally in Bitwig.

I really need to spend more time with the Grid, I have seen amazing full tracks built in just the Grid. Also if I need to make a sampled instrument (from hardware samples for example), using bitwig sampler is insanely quick by mapping multiple samples. I will say that I will get Live 10 Suite again, but just so collaboration is easier with others.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1317 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:16 pm

If you're looking for the "great" FLS piano roll in Live or Bitwig, forget it. Likely because all the paint-by-numbers FLS stuff some users find so "great" isn't required or desired by people who are willing to learn the craft of music.

tooneba
KVRian
1223 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:57 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:16 pm
If you're looking for the "great" FLS piano roll in Live or Bitwig, forget it. Likely because all the paint-by-numbers FLS stuff some users find so "great" isn't required or desired by people who are willing to learn the craft of music.
Are you bitwig dev? The motivation of "We don't need this" lobbying in random public forum is just weird.

Trancit
KVRAF
2450 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:37 am

tooneba wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:57 pm
jonljacobi wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:16 pm
If you're looking for the "great" FLS piano roll in Live or Bitwig, forget it. Likely because all the paint-by-numbers FLS stuff some users find so "great" isn't required or desired by people who are willing to learn the craft of music.
Are you bitwig dev? The motivation of "We don't need this" lobbying in random public forum is just weird.
No, he´s writing always the same nonsense...
Everybody who do not play all midi in live via keyboard isn´t a muscian and not crafted enough to produce music...
Do you hear him... all you poor violinists, drummers, saxophonists etc... why didn´t you learn to play piano that you get the permission from him to actually produce music...

jonljacobi
KVRian
1317 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 am

Did I mention a keyboard? The argument is to use your mind and to reduce feature bloat.

Trancit
KVRAF
2450 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:30 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 am
Did I mention a keyboard? The argument is to use your mind and to reduce feature bloat.
Then please you could explain a bit deeper the "paint-by-numbers FLS stuff" in relation to FLS´s (indeed) "great" Piano roll editor...

To me it sounds like you´re criticizing users painting in notes into the PR instead of recording them...

anomandaris1
KVRist
354 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:51 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 am
Did I mention a keyboard? The argument is to use your mind and to reduce feature bloat.
In a few years Bitwig will be as feature bloated as any modern DAW... unless they stop adding new stuff, but there will be no reason to charge for a new version then, so your logic makes no sense.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1317 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:26 am

There’s a difference between painting and thoughtfully entering. I’m just tired of hearing how great FLS’s MIDI editor is and the incessant lobbying by a few users to add its training wheel features to other DAWs. I find Live’s faster and easier to use and have no issues with Bitwig’s. And I own FLS, which is a fine DAW in its own right.

And yes, Bitwig is well on its way towards being as bloated and over engineered as most others.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1434 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 am

Ableton has the better and complete included fx overall (e.g. a really good, flexible eq), Bitwig's isn't bad either, in the end, Bitwig has a much better base concept and is more flexible, too. I think even more features already, starting from the base like full VST3 support, MPE... Thankfully they do not waste their time with a wavetable synth (there are a lot of VSTis which will do the job better)... Or do they? :neutral:

User avatar
inkwarp
KVRian
790 posts since 16 Jan, 2012 from UK

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:23 am

my own experience is that, for all the bells & whistles bitwig cannot handle large projects. Ableton is remarkably solid for me these days and it has all the functionality i need. Plus. using fl piano roll in tandem is a great combo. I could be wrong but I seem to recall there is no rewire support in Bitwig and nor will there be. I have no idea why, rewire is super-useful,.. but hey, each to their own :)

jonljacobi
KVRian
1317 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Trancit wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:30 am
jonljacobi wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 am
Did I mention a keyboard? The argument is to use your mind and to reduce feature bloat.
Then please you could explain a bit deeper the "paint-by-numbers FLS stuff" in relation to FLS´s (indeed) "great" Piano roll editor...

To me it sounds like you´re criticizing users painting in notes into the PR instead of recording them...
Not at all. I just like Live's keep it simple, rely on the skill and mind of the user approach when it comes to doing so. FLS's MIDI editor is great in the context of FLS which has a huge number of non-musicians who use it. That's not a knock on FLS which is a great program that's perfectly capable of producing any type of music, but you can just click on things with zero ideas or intent and wind up with something decent sounding. I have several friends who do just that.

User avatar
thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25669 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:35 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:45 am
The argument is to use your mind and to reduce feature bloat.
Image

tooneba
KVRian
1223 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:42 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:26 am
There’s a difference between painting and thoughtfully entering. I’m just tired of hearing how great FLS’s MIDI editor is and the incessant lobbying by a few users to add its training wheel features to other DAWs. I find Live’s faster and easier to use and have no issues with Bitwig’s. And I own FLS, which is a fine DAW in its own right.

And yes, Bitwig is well on its way towards being as bloated and over engineered as most others.
Coming to random public forum to talk about what they want is common human behavior. :hihi: Look at ordinary reviews people are doing. They do like x is good. Y works great. Z is unique feature. But it isn’t like I don’t want A, I hate to see B, I reject C. Because it sound arrogant, authoritarian and weird. Every time having an urge to make random people exposed to a person’s feeling and trying to change their mind by judging and blatantly shaming their way of doing are just ... unhealthy and weird.

anomandaris1
KVRist
354 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:56 pm

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 am
Thankfully they do not waste their time with a wavetable synth (there are a lot of VSTis which will do the job better)... Or do they? :neutral:
The sampler can be used as a basic wavetable synth, but it lacks various transformations that Massive and others have. Phase Plant also lacks them, but you can replicate them with phase or frequency modulation. Maybe in the grid you can do it like in PP.

anomandaris1
KVRist
354 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:01 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:44 pm


Not at all. I just like Live's keep it simple, rely on the skill and mind of the user approach when it comes to doing so. FLS's MIDI editor is great in the context of FLS which has a huge number of non-musicians who use it. That's not a knock on FLS which is a great program that's perfectly capable of producing any type of music, but you can just click on things with zero ideas or intent and wind up with something decent sounding. I have several friends who do just that.
Cubase's graphical note editor is even more featured and and is as easy as in FL to input midi with mouse - why aren't Cubase known as "music theory hacks" then?
Live is actually more popular in non-musical circles like techno music (where most people record sequenced hardware synths or work with audio samples/loops).

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”