Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[SLiC]

I would love a chance for the developer to respond here soon. Maybe I have the wrong idea, or maybe there are alternative options available. But right now, this has me seeing red.

The developer responded many times for a long time, but after neverding bashing on every decision VPS made, he left the building.

Yup- thats what usually happens to developers who openly communicate on KVR....very few remain.

[Hanz Meyzer]

I think it is a Karma thing He left the building leaving the job undone, also ignoring facts and (repetitive) questions. He was blaming the posters for Vengeance's lack of organisation. It was his decision, I think facebook is a better place for him.

So now we can start to discuss based on facts.

[Norrin_Radd]

I have been in contact with him. I can see why responding in threads would be exhausting. But either way, i am getting to the bottom of this.

[MasterTuner]

Not knowing much about this topic, but is there anyway Codemeter could be compromised to transmit keystrokes (i.e. passwords you type in online)? What kind of data breaches is it open to?

[marzelli]

I think many of the problems here could have been adressed easily if the real dev would be here to quickly answer some of the questions. Giving this task to only the sound designer and having him keeping to ask back and forth all the time for code or copy protection related topics not only creates misunderstandings but nags on the nerves of all participants.

[SirkusPi]

I would love a chance for the developer to respond here soon. Maybe I have the wrong idea, or maybe there are alternative options available. But right now, this has me seeing red.

The developer responded many times for a long time, but after neverding bashing on every decision VPS made, he left the building.

For some reason, I don't feel badly about not just rolling over and accepting Vengeance's decision to change a fundamental term under which I bought Avenger (keyfile rather than CodeMeter protection) after having already taken my money, without offering to refund my purchase. And yes, that was in fact an integral part of my decision to purchase.

I understand I can still use 1.4. But I didn't pay hundreds of dollars for a synth with the understanding that I'd no longer be able to update it after just a few months without compromising the ongoing security of my system for reasons that benefit only the developer, and not me (or any consumer) at all.

So no, I'm not "bashing on every decision VPS made." Just on its decision to change unilaterally the terms of the deal after I made a purchase specifically in reliance on those terms, and yet still keep my money.

[Ryan99]

I'm not saying that one person is bashing all decisions, but that every time VPS is making a decision, there's always people complaining. You can read hundreds of pages of that in this thread.

[MrBauer]

Didn't know it is a requirement now people have to feel good with every decision the VTeam makes. But that's what their own forum once was for and know their facebook group is for. Here we present our opinions on things like the change to a more intrusive online demanding copy protection or the fact ever update messed up something new or that the whole release of this plugin felt like a paid beta release (the same way it is now with Nexus which coincidentally by some of the same guys). The same way people expressed when they like something.

[Ryan99]

A lot of people here are rude and using the anonimity of the internet to bash at the developers.

When they thought about changing the copy-protection, some people wanted only Ilok, some only elicenser, some only Codemeter, and when the decision was made, the bashing continued up until now. No way to please everyone, so there's a constant flow of people complaining pages after pages...

[Hanz Meyzer]

Again, what a nonsense. Who is hiding here, who actually was bashing or being rude?

You simply get what you give in.

[SLiC]

And so ends 700+ friendly and informative pages on Avenger.
RIP thread, I give it a week before its closed.

[SirkusPi]

A lot of people here are rude and using the anonimity of the internet to bash at the developers.

When they thought about changing the copy-protection, some people wanted only Ilok, some only elicenser, some only Codemeter, and when the decision was made, the bashing continued up until now. No way to please everyone, so there's a constant flow of people complaining pages after pages...

The way to please everyone is to stick to the deal they offered by NOT changing copy protection after people have made their purchases in specific reliance on their statement that protection was provided by a keyfile system.

I understand that they keyfile was broken and that Avenger was afflicted by piracy. It absolutely sucks for them.

But Vengeance are not naive new developers. They used eLicenser for years on other products, presumably for the security it offered. Then they chose to switch away from that, in part, no doubt, to increase market share beyond those who were willing to put up with eLicenser. As experienced developers, they knew the risks of using a keyfile system - presumably it's why they used eLicenser for their earlier products. As experienced developers, they knew it might be cracked. If they wanted the security of CodeMeter for Avenger, they could have used it from the start, and then customers would have known what they were getting into before giving Vengeance their money.

Note that I absolutely do not think that this was all an intentional dastardly "scheme." I 100% believe they thought their keyfile system would be impenetrable, and went into this with the best of intentions. But having taken that gamble and lost, why should the honest consumer suffer?

And just to be clear: as soon as people stop calling out those of us who are upset, I'll stop posting why I'm so upset. But every time someone posts about how poor, innocent Vengeance had no choice, I will explain once again that, as experienced developers who chose to move away from eLicenser-style systems to a keyfile and advertised that as a selling point, my sympathy for Vengeance for having to live with the natural consequences of their own considered decisions is decidedly limited.

[SLiC]

Again, what a nonsense. Who is hiding here, who actually was bashing or being rude?

You simply get what you give in.

And what you got was one more developer leaving KVR.

The vast majority of us who just didn't care that much about the copy protection used have been disadvantaged by the few that did and kicked up a fuss.

A Pyrrhic victory?

[Hanz Meyzer]

Sorry, then I delete my post.

[Sampleconstruct]

Hostility versus arrogance, that's the main theme of this thread.