KVR Audio

willi157 · Post by **willi157** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:48 pm

Hello,

Yes, yes... this is probably the most vague, open-ended, least-likely-to-really-give-me-a-definite-answer question I could possibly ask, but the truth is I've done some shopping around for something new, sifted through all the professional solutions out there, and come away feeling they're all pretty much the same. Which can't be true, given the differences in prices between all the various programs...

Just to clarify, by the way, I am looking for a new music production program. I am hoping that by providing some of the things I am particularly looking for, as well as the manner in which I prefer to work, those who have used some or all of the solutions out there can give me some pointers that will work for me personally.

Okay, first off, I'm working in a Windows environment. I have no option to invest further in a Mac for a Mac-only program. Second, budget. I'm a fairly broke college student, but even with student discounts, some programs can be quite pricey. I understand that professional power comes at a professional price, and I am prepared to invest somewhat in my production software, but I can't really dish out more than $500. And that's with educational discounts applied. Thirdly, ease of use. I REALLY do not have the time to be fumbling about a program that may indeed be the most powerful piece of software engineering ever to grace the human race, but yields an interface that is incredibly obtuse and frustrating to self-teach. So an intuitive interface is going to go a long long way to influencing my decision.

Now I am coming from a long history of tracking. I've used all of them out there, and back when I tracked music for video games or dance albums, a tracker did everything I could possibly need it to. Nothing needed to sound organic or natural, after all. The tracker gave me my grid, and I happily threw in all manner of modern experimental cacophony to produce that next big club hit.

Since then, I've drifted into a totally different realm, and that is film scoring. This is probably the field in which I will be remaining for an indefinite period of time. Trackers just don't cut it anymore... they're not sophisticated enough, they don't have features that augment the process of composing digital music that must sound real and dynamic. However there are some things the tracker-style sequencer still offers me. Usually, basslines and percussion I like to handle in a tracker, just because the format is so easy to use and I can create some elaborate tracks in very little time.

But now I have discovered the joys of vsti's and dxi's... and things will never be the same. Being able to hook up my synth and play my lead strings or pianos or whatever through my software with such exquisite precision and expression is an unparalleled experience, and no tracker out there (that I know of, anyway) even comes close to something more high-end...

So that's the way I work now. Scoring films, handling percussion and basslines and anything else considered "background" or "secondary" in the tracker, with samples... and recording everything else via midi in a vsti environment, though right now I am quite limited in this regard by the crappiness of my current software.

So... what springs to mind? What sounds like it will give me what I need... budget-wise, ease of use, with good solid vsti/dxi support and some familiarity with someone used to the pattern-based tracking world? I honestly don't know much about what to expect out of a higher-end prog. The screenshots all look the same to me, some have grid-like interfaces that look as though I could jump right in, others have sequencing interfaces that seem more involving and more difficult to learn... all look to do midi and virtual instruments to the capacity I require... I dunno. Like I said, they all seem to be pretty much the same, but the prices differ enough that I know there must be some significant differences from one to the next.

I hear Sonar, Acid, and Cubase tossed out a lot, but I know there are lots of other good programs out there. Orion, maybe, comes to mind... but I'm not sure of any others.

Anyway, any suggestions would be most helpful in narrowing down the field of what otherwise appears to an untrained eye to be a world of identical programs with arbitrarily differing pricetags.

Thanks,
-Willi

ambe · Post by **ambe** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:05 pm

try the demos, i'd recommend orion because it has pattern sequencing (like trackers) but also has some feature of more conventional sequencers.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:15 pm

ambe wrote:try the demos, i'd recommend orion because it has pattern sequencing (like trackers) but also has some feature of more conventional sequencers.

Good call. It was the first non-tracker host i bought and its very capable indeed. It has plenty of bundled Synths, drum machines and FX out of the box so you can get started straight away.

Coming from a tracking background myself, i can say that it served me very well for a couple of years and i learnt a lot about sequencing and mixing in this host.

Others to check:

* FLStudio - like orion has plenty included.
* Tracktion - good value and great audio recording/handling.
* Renoise - Great modern tracker, cheap and powerful.
* Live - Revolutionary software, great recording and audio editing, and now has good MIDI and VSTi support.

Just try some demos if you have the time, it'll help you decide what style of interface etc feels comfortable for you.

Good luck

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:17 pm

quincy wrote:Just try some demos if you have the time, it'll help you decide what style of interface etc feels comfortable for you.

Good luck

And if you don't have the time, you can always ask someone here to do it for ya, right quincy?

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:21 pm

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:23 pm

sicklecell666 wrote:
quincy wrote:Just try some demos if you have the time, it'll help you decide what style of interface etc feels comfortable for you.

Good luck
And if you don't have the time, you can always ask someone here to do it for ya, right quincy?

Abso-f**king-lutely

CC4 · Post by **CC4** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:28 pm

Probably worth checking...

Patch Arena List
http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/index.php
http://www.pcpages.com/deltasp2002/
http://www.synthfont.com/
http://pquenin.free.fr/pqnaudio/
http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
http://www.ultrano.com/
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/MusicC ... efault.asp
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/studio.asp
http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/
http://www.nashnet.co.uk/english/reViSiT/
http://hem.passagen.se/xlnt/frs/
http://www.lim.com.au/ImpulseTracker/
http://www.buzzmachines.com/
http://www.xtracker32.org/
http://www.steinberg.net/

nool · Post by **nool** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:30 pm

hmm ok how about free ?

It is _very different_ than your traditional 'trackers', tons of expansions, might take a little bit of research to figure out all of its 'new' features ....

alot of the problem, is ppl don't know how to do certain things with it, but it is possible and has been for a while now, its very different from the final release in 2000 but at the same time not so different

www.buzzmachines.com

if have and don't like it, ignore me or take a look at this
http://www.noolmusic.com/fat/buzzfat.shtml
http://www.noolmusic.com/machmanuals/machmanuals.shtml
http://www.noolmusic.com/buzzreview/buzzreview.shtml
http://www.noolmusic.com/buzzboard/buzzboard.shtml

or ignore me again

CC4 · Post by **CC4** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:32 pm

several of the above are free. i tried to list them from cheapest to more expensive... but put the esoteric stuff near the end.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:35 pm

HI

Oh well; that demo list should take at least a year to work through, properly - I look foward to hearing from you around Xmas 2005

.

Flipper.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:53 pm

Given your maximum budget of $500 you might also want to consider Adobe Audition, which will give you a complete audio recording and editing solution as well as video playback.

Audition gives you (briefly):
- 128 tracks of audio
- video playback in scalable window, plus as a clip track
- ReWire host, which means you can hook Orion straight into Audition for all your MIDI tracking needs (probably just in your budget for both!)
- VST and DX host
- Looping tools as per (or better than) Sonar/Acid
- Simply awesome effects processing, including convolution type reverb

Demo here (unlimited use including saving for 30 days)

http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/overview.html

mute · Post by **mute** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:10 am

Since then, I've drifted into a totally different realm, and that is film scoring. This is probably the field in which I will be remaining for an indefinite period of time. Trackers just don't cut it anymore... they're not sophisticated enough, they don't have features that augment the process of composing digital music that must sound real and dynamic. However there are some things the tracker-style sequencer still offers me. Usually, basslines and percussion I like to handle in a tracker, just because the format is so easy to use and I can create some elaborate tracks in very little time.

wow, that was extremely annoying and uninformed. you should get an award.

elekt · Post by **elekt** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:13 am

Buzz. The best vst support there is. Both standard mixing interface and modular, and if you get on IRC /efnet / #buzz, people will give you all the examples and the support you need to get you moving along. For free.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:14 am

mute wrote:
Since then, I've drifted into a totally different realm, and that is film scoring. This is probably the field in which I will be remaining for an indefinite period of time. Trackers just don't cut it anymore... they're not sophisticated enough, they don't have features that augment the process of composing digital music that must sound real and dynamic. However there are some things the tracker-style sequencer still offers me. Usually, basslines and percussion I like to handle in a tracker, just because the format is so easy to use and I can create some elaborate tracks in very little time.
wow, that was extremely annoying and entirely inaccurate.

What was wrong with that? The bloke needs extra precision and other stuff,so he feels trackers don't cut it for that purpose.

I'd agree with him, can't see why its innacurate when its just an opinion. Certainly i wouldn't pick a tracker to do extremely precise work involving syncing to film. But each to their own.

Whats with the f**king attitude anyway?

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:24 am

Acid'll do the trick for scoring... maybe use FL Studio for loops and then arrange them in Acid. Tracktion works great for me but doesn't have any video support (not that I need any).

I need a new host.