Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

[dtrq]

To be counted it have to be complete, in this case to have Year 1 it must proceed all the way from 0 to 1

[fmr]

To be counted it have to be complete, in this case to have Year 1 it must proceed all the way from 0 to 1:

years.png

Of course... The moment you are born you have 0 years... etc. But you are WITHIN your first year of existence. When you celebrate your first birthday, you have one COMPLETE year. Six months AFTER your first birthday, you have 1 year AND six months. When you celebrate your tenth birthday, you are a DECADE old (that's ten complete years). That's AFTER 10 complete years have passed. So, you say you have 10 years... only AFTER you completed the ten years.

Now let's imagine you were born in the first second of the first year of this era (1 AD), and you lasted 2020 years. You would celebrate your FIRST birthday in the 1st of January of 2 AD (I presume this will not be disputed). In which day would you celebrate your 2020th anniversary? And how old would you be then?

[dtrq]

Now let's imagine you were born in the first second of the first year of this era (1 AD), and you lasted 2020 years. You would celebrate your FIRST birthday in the 1st of January of 2 AD (I presume this will not be disputed).

This is exactly what is disputed here.
1 AD is the SECOND year, first one is 0 (it's a label, not counting number! they are not the same!).
Look at the picture above. The first year goes from 0 to 1, second from 1 to 2, etc. So if you're born at the beginning of the first year (at zero point), your first birthday would be 1st of January of 1 AD.
The misunderstanding comes from the fact that you can name a year by it's nominal digit number and by counting number, and they are not the same.

This is year of 2020. It's the first year of the decade because it starts from 0 and goes to 1. Just like time from 0:00 to 0:59 is the first hour.
The nominal and measurement number is 0.
The counting number is 1.

[fmr]

Now let's imagine you were born in the first second of the first year of this era (1 AD), and you lasted 2020 years. You would celebrate your FIRST birthday in the 1st of January of 2 AD (I presume this will not be disputed).

This is exactly what is disputed here.
1 AD is the SECOND year, first one is 0 (it's a label, not counting number! they are not the same!).
Look at the picture above. The first year goes from 0 to 1, second from 1 to 2, etc. So if you're born at the beginning of the first year (at zero point), your first birthday would be 1st of January of 1 AD.

Actually NO. Your first birthday would be celebrated in the 1st of January of 2 AD. The first day of the Gregorian calendar was the 1st of January of 1 AD (the day you would be born). You would celebrate your tenth birthday in the 1st of January of 11 AD. That's how the calendar was established, and you can't count it as you want, otherwise you would need to change ALL dates of ALL historical events up to now, and we would be in the year 2019, actually.

[dtrq]

But it's wrong, and still is a subject to debate over all those centuries. When it was established, 0 as conception was not yet fully adopted by European culture, but today we are not in Medieval times. And church is not only organisation to have authority to control how time is counted. For example, in astronomy and IT calendars start from year 0.
And there's no need to change all the dates even if sticking to Gregorian, you just add year 0 before 1 without shifting whole timeline.
This is all personal preferences at this point, I just wanted to prove that my position is logical and mathematically correct. The only arguments for "start with 1 end with 0" are historical and religious matters, and basically are based on wrong approach in the first place. It's not like I'd accept such arguments over much more reasonable ones.
Funny fact, in medieval Asia they were also counting age from 1, so you basically born 1 .y.o.

[EvilDragon]

If it's personal preferences then it cannot be wrong. It can be subjective.

[Obsolete236871]

Can we please focus on important things in life, such as bringing SHORTCIRCUIT aka the greatest sampler plugin of all times back to life?

[EvilDragon]

OK!

What makes Shortcircuit the greatest sampler plugin of all times? Because I'm not seeing it, it's quite limiting...

[dtrq]

If it's personal preferences then it cannot be wrong. It can be subjective.

One can say that any "right\wrong" judgment is always subjective.

Can we please focus on important things in life, such as bringing SHORTCIRCUIT aka the greatest sampler plugin of all times back to life?

If we actually could do something about it, though.

[Obsolete236871]

OK!

What makes Shortcircuit the greatest sampler plugin of all times? Because I'm not seeing it, it's quite limiting...

I guess it really depends on what you need a sampler for. I mostly used it for "creative" sampling duties, not so much for building chromatic instrument patches (which is of course also possible).

I loved the straightforwardness of quickly loading a bunch of samples into SC, assigning them to individual keys (every new loaded sampled would automatically be assigned to the next semitone on the keynote, which sounds trivial, but a lot of sampler plugins don't even get this basic thing right) and then "chopping" them up by editing the start and end points, as well as group parameters for ADSR setting, filter and so on.

In fact, what I would often do is to load the same sample (typically a longer audio sequence sampled from some record) onto multiple keys and then "chop" the sequences for each instance by adjusting start and end point on each so that each key only plays a selected part of that original audio sequence. So, all keys play the sample at the same pitch (which I could then adjust for all simultaneously on the group level), but a different "slice" of the originally sampled sequence. That's one way to do classical "sample chopping" the 90s hiphop way (think DJ Premier) and believe it or not: most sampler plugins don't allow you to do this in a straightforward and efficient manner, since most developers of sampling plugins don't understand creative uses of samplers outside of standard chromatic patch creation.

One of the few plugins that allow me an equally efficient workflow for such sampling duties is the commercial Serato Sample plugin, which is in some ways superior to Shortcircuit (Serato has built in key detection, auto-slicing and independent high quality pitch shift and time stretch), but in other aspects fails to provide the full capacity of Shortcircuit. Another one would be the built in Simpler in Ableton (the one that comes with Ableton 9.5 and up) which also allows me to do the things that I've done in Shortcircuit years ago. But other than those two (one commercial 90€ plugin and the other one that comes as part of a commercial DAW) I haven't found another sampler plugin that cut it (no pun intended).

[EvilDragon]

Alright, thanks for your input. Nothing that can't be done in Kontakt or Falcon, just as efficiently, as far as I can tell. But yeah, there's the price (and in case of Falcon, iLok) factor!

[Obsolete236871]

Alright, thanks for your input. Nothing that can't be done in Kontakt or Falcon, just as efficiently, as far as I can tell. But yeah, there's the price (and in case of Falcon, iLok) factor!

Heard good things about Falcon, which is obviously a much more comprehensive beast (actually a huge sampling + synthesizer workstation). But it's not quite affordable and probably a complete overload for what I'm trying to do.

I know Kontakt very well and I obviously it's a de facto industry-standard (especially as a playback engine for commercial sample libraries), but believe it or not: Kontakt is definitely not as efficient as Shortcircuit for the above described creative sampling tasks. The interface of Kontakt is much too cluttered (or in less harsh terms: "complex") compared to SC where you have access to all parameters to quickly map, edit, process (fx / sends) and route your sample material in one well-structured active window.

I'm not saying it can't be done in Kontakt (it can), but it's not as straightforward and intuitive (trust me, I tried it and spent weeks trying out various creative sampling workflows in both Shortciruit and Kontakt back then and it was always much more intuitive and quicker to get these things done in SC). Obviously Kontakt is overall much superior for creating complex chromatic multisample instrument patches with all it's functions and capabilities (including scripting), but it's not well suited for these rather simple, creative tasks. It's just not designed with these workflows in mind.

In Ableton you can see that distinction looking at Simpler and Sampler: Simpler is their in many ways more rudimentary sample tool for creative and intuitive approaches to sampling, while Sampler is their more complex but also less intuitive tool mainly for comprehensive multisample work.

Shortcircuit is like Simpler, while Kontakt and Falcon are more equivalent to Sampler.* What is missing in the freeware world is something like Shortcircuit / Simpler. We have TX16wx which attempts to be a substitute for something like Kontakt (especially regarding it's capacity to create and play comprehensive multisample sets), but not very suitable for Shortcircuit / Simpler style intuitive sample work.

The user reviews you'll find over at the KVR entry for Shortcircuit really show that I'm not alone with that perception.

*Employing Kontakt or Falcon for the beforementioned sampling tasks is like using a jackhammer just to plant a nail into a wall - complete overload, when all you need is a fine, well manufactured hammer.

[ftech]

Loving all of this talk about Surge. Very informative.

[Halonmusic]

OK!

What makes Shortcircuit the greatest sampler plugin of all times? Because I'm not seeing it, it's quite limiting...

Limited? No. Its got a great amount of effects, 12 modulation slots, 3 lfos and so on

[Benedict]

I loved Shortcircuit 1 (2 not so much but if I recall correctly I never got done).

SC 1 was (and I said this several times) a lot like using my EMU Emax I & II samplers in that while it was a bit of a spreadsheet matrix to look at, it made for a really nice instrument. It was all over many of my albums from that time.

I'd be interested to see SC 1 return or have the simple Sample Loading go in Surge as I have always really liked samplers as synths.