music being held back by big corporations

[Steven West]

No, I agree with Falcon here. I often 'surf' Much Music and Much More Music when ad's come on other stations. It used to be in the 80's, it was three out of 5 clicks that tweed my interest - maybe it was a slice of Public Enemy, Public Image, General Public... But I liked what I heard. In the 90's maybe 2 down to 1 out of 5. Nirvana was ran into the ground (pardon the pun Kurt), Pearl Jam, Sound Garden - where's the freakin variety? Ahhh, My Bloody Valentine, Stereolab - good! But where the heck did those videos go? And of course late 90's to now - just laughable crap from Beyonce rolling around a loading dock to Blink Sum Linkin's Biscuit.
I think the last video that intrigued me to go out and buy a CD of it was Daft Punk?

And what gets me even more is these umpteen cable channels now up here, and I'm sure in the States as well? Much Vibe, Much Loud, Much Retro, Cool Jazz TV, etc. 24hours of 50cent, Jay Z, and Nelly - yet turn on Much Music any time of the day, there they are as well! Want 'retro' - Much More Music, which is actually becoming the 'Much M.O.R.' channel spewing out Celine Dijon Mustard and Jessica 'Homer' Simpson every 3rd video it seems?

As for product placement, that I don't get? Last I really watched rap/hip hop videos - all the T-shirts and Hats were 'blurred out', which looks even stupider. As well as every second word being silenced out... "You're like New Coke, you're a mother----- joke! I got my 9 primed, yo bit-- it's ----ing killin' time!

And they won't play Aphex Twin or NIN because it's 'too disturbing'. Yet if Marilyn Manson comes out with a strap on dildo singing a cover of Debbie Boones 'You Light Up My Life' - it's the talk of the town!

Video killed the intelligence star.

[Ja.x]

Music is currently an industrial product. Mass production for the masses. And that's big corporations point of view; they don't have visible owners, they have stakeholders, and stakeholders invest their money and they don't give a shit if the company is in the music industry or pet food's. So companies must make big money or stakeholders will go somewhere else with their money. And this is one side of the story.

The other side is that it's changing. More and more people do not "consume" music, and make music instead (like we do); and more and more people do not buy the big corporations shit, but prefer to get their music from places like K-v-R (like I do). The world is changing, my friends, and like Moby said (I think it was in a special issue 2002 of 'The Economist'), why should people buy a dance CD if they can make one themselves with a notebook? The same idea aplies to any genre.

Now the big chalenge is to make people look for the music they want (on the net, or wherever) instead of rushing to buy the crap they listen to on the radio. For me, the real interesting music is done by people like us (home studios, etc.), or by street musicians.

[jones-y]

As for product placement, that I don't get?

They're paid to have certain cars in their videos. They get endorsements for mentioning certain products or vendors or wearing certain shoes. Hell, they only blur out the stuff that hasn't been bought with ad money... There are plenty of advertising dollars going into rap.






Sad

[pHz]

been going on for years though ...

... it was way back in 1986 when run DMC got their $1000000 4 year sponsorship deal from adidas ...

slainte rob

[Steven West]

I agree as well. All the kiddies that grew up on Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls are off smoking and sucking 'sugar and spices' that make everything nice now. So where is this pandering shallow crap going to? The few lonely secretaries after 5pm sitting in a 'smoke free bar' that's not into sports? But there is a 'underground revolution happening' I feel too. People are finally getting off this crap and realising the only way 50cent is known today isn't because he's a rapper - he's a good looking young rich man that was shot repeatedly and lived. The only reason Jessica Simpson has a video is because she's so unbelievably stupid in her own TV show that is there to exploit her stupidity... That's brilliant!

But I am surprised how many rappers and hip hoppers are checking out my twisted music and getting off on it. Something like Soundclick is to me more 'supportive' these days than the 'rock warriors' of past where they were only successful due to their grossly inflated egos. There's a bit at Soundclick, and I'm probably just as guilty myself.
But we're talking about a mentality that I only thought existed in Nashville before with country music. So it's pretty amazing to see all walks checking out all walks in Cyberspace, and letting one another know their shits good - or just giving advice to one another how to make it better.

I'd love to see Robert Plant and David Coverdale do that back in the day.

[shamann]

I'd love to see Robert Plant and David Coverdale do that back in the day.

Oi, Coverdale, if you're going to name your band after your cock, you have to put the cucumber in the front of your trousers, man.

[cptgone]

haven't read the whole thread, but the topic title reminds me of Terry Gilliam's "Don Quichote" being held hostage by some big insurance company (as seen in "Lost in La Mancha".

we're living in a time where all power shifts to the corps. scary as hell!

[mr.me]

Well, I think MTv killed music. But computer music and internet will bring life back to music....the artist has control...and the abilaty to share. Not as much money in it, but that's not why it should be made. It's not ment to be a product, it's ment to send a feeling or message.

[mr.me]

BTW, I think MTv could have been good. It could have became a wonderful artistic idea, but changed to sell sell sell.

[dystonia_ek]

Mind you, there are a few underground streams that have thrived for quite a long time without anyone trying to interfere.

[oldevil]

the stuff on shirts and hats that get blanked out in rap videos are the reefer leaf logos and other evil drug references. they can show and advocate all the violence and sex they want. but yeah, corporate greed(can i trademark that?) is killing music just like it's killing the rest of Amerika and the 'free world'. I do agree there is an 'underground' movement made up of people making all kinds of music, but airplay is limited. i get most of my music off the internet these days, and i'm a lot older than most of you. most people my age don't know there is great unheard music on the 'net. and rap is becoming the most commercial, formula-ized music around, mainly because the formula sales. as Lilly Thomlin(sp?) said 'it's called show business, not show art'. too bad...

[shamann]

Well, I think MTv killed music.

I just finished reading a collection of Lester Bangs' writing, and there's this funny bit about MTV in a letter he wrote a few years after he died (don't ask):

P.S. What is this f**king "M.T.V." Thought for sure it was some new drug, but Rick says for sure it's not. Then he thinks for a second and says, "You know, Lester, maybe it is at that." Said if it had been around in '69, Stones'd have to make a "video" of "Gimme Shelter." I say huh?

[jones-y]

and rap is becoming the most commercial, formula-ized music around, mainly because the formula sales.

Its not becoming formula-ized. It IS formula-ized. But, as with any other genre, you can still find gems.

I just found one myself. "The New Danger" by Mos Def. Rap/Rock/Blues/Soul hybrid. Awesome stuff man. Oh and check Outkast's last 4 albums too.

[bitcrusher]

Its not becoming formula-ized. It IS formula-ized.

I think theres a feedback loop between radio and the aspiring musician which is dangerous.

I think most of the formula comes from the artists themselves. People overly concerned with making music which is "good" and limiting the scope of creativity to a narrow angle based on what is cool at the moment.

As a result, they possibly suffer frustration of never meeting that projected ideal of what isn't really their state of expression or creative self.

Of course this music passes the narrow-set filters of the label execs and their radio buddies, so then you hear it.. and the kids developing their musical intellect hear it and buy it.. Its on the radio for a reason ....right???

[Guybrush]

Just had to share my opinion.

Maybe i am stupid and "wrong", but i like "pop" music (because i guess that's what your are talking about).

I am not so far off a teenager (i'm 17 too) and I do like many - not all of course - pop songs that i hear on commercial radiostations and MTV. Am I a sorry victim of the big bad labels aggressive marketing campains or do i just want to fit in the crowd and listen to what everyone else listens too?

I don't think so.

Think about it... why is it called "pop" music? It's a short term for "popular" music... Thats because it's easy to listen too and many people likes it (and no.. of course not everyone) - therefor it is popular.

I am a very musically interessted person and i like almost all music genres from rock/pop to trance to jazz to fusion to funk to classical to emocore and pretty much everything else. I go a musical school here in sweden and i compose with my computer and play 3 normal instruments.
Still i love great pop songs.

The two people i look up to most and get inspiration from are Max martin and Denniz Pop (Rip), two of the geniouses behind many of BSB's most succesfull hits, Britney's first hits, some N*sync songs and many more artist. I adore them because the can create music that the majority of people likes (again of course not all, but look at these artists sales and you get the picture).

So thats just my view... I love pop music because of the music - not couse some big corporation has brainwashed me into liking it.

Cheers