Understanding electronic music composing.

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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Stamped Records wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:08 pm What I'm actually saying is that the same language describes the behavior of both. Harmony and melody are what they are depending on how you use them but people can be put off learning theory because it appears to relate only to harmony. Harmony and melody are interdependent and even where there appears to be no harmony, harmony can be at work in the background holding the melody together.
What do you see as the implied harmony in this, and why does it help with any analysis of the piece?



I think you're also over-egging the idea that melody implies harmony by itself (if you take memory out of the equation and don't try to impose what your brain heard on the first playthrough of the completed piece). Reharmonisation is a thing and will change the perception of a melody on each change in harmony.

The problem you describe of people being put off by harmony is more a consequence of "music theory" being not music theory at all but the theory of common practice classical music. The 20th Century drove a coach and horses through that and, unfortunately, the theory books and courses still haven't caught up. It is, unfortunately, not that relevant to the kind of music a lot of people want to make but we currently force people across the chasm first rather than take into account the fact that not everything has to have a V-I cadence.

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Forgotten wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:29 pm The same language does not describe both.

How does no harmony hold a melody together by working in the background? That makes no sense.
occult harmony?
:ud:

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vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:32 pm
Forgotten wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:29 pm The same language does not describe both.

How does no harmony hold a melody together by working in the background? That makes no sense.
occult harmony?
Illuminati harmony more like. Lizard people stole my chords.

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Stamped Records wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:08 pm What I'm actually saying is that the same language describes the behavior of both. Harmony and melody are what they are depending on how you use them but people can be put off learning theory because it appears to relate only to harmony. Harmony and melody are interdependent and even where there appears to be no harmony, harmony can be at work in the background holding the melody together.
Harmony can be actually heard as a type of timbre (because what is "timbre" in reality?) (and sound event on its own) or as several melodies played along each other (in more polyphonic music).
Melody is not dependant on harmony, but can work with it or AGAINST (for example many "edgy" - horror or action movie - soundtracks use such techniques) it.

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Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:42 pm
vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:32 pm
Forgotten wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:29 pm The same language does not describe both.

How does no harmony hold a melody together by working in the background? That makes no sense.
occult harmony?
Illuminati harmony more like. Lizard people stole my chords.
i saw a docu about a chapel in scotland, using cymatics, the templars had encoded occult harmony in to the architecture. apparently.

rosslyn/roslind? cant remember.
bunch of rubbish obviously, but if you played the harmony it would open a secret door :hihi:

has anyone ever tried?

er no.
:ud:

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Never seen the doc but it's not the nuttiest thing possible. You could conceive of a way of encoding a secret pattern in the waves that appear if you inject specific frequencies into a tub of a precise shape and size that you then use to identify a stone with that pattern, behind which is the key. It's not exactly open sesame but it looks almost workable.

It's all a bit Dan Brown isn't it?

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Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:53 pm Never seen the doc but it's not the nuttiest thing possible. You could conceive of a way of encoding a secret pattern in the waves that appear if you inject specific frequencies into a tub of a precise shape and size that you then use to identify a stone with that pattern, behind which is the key. It's not exactly open sesame but it looks almost workable.

It's all a bit Dan Brown isn't it?
yeah it was a bit.
the idea was, there where patterns in the architecture, that matched cymatic patterns (some where close, others more like figures and such).
and if you worked out which tones apply, play it back, it would open a vault, where you may find the grail.

but like i said, no one has bothered to try. thats the bit that made me chuckle.
seems like too much hard work just for jesus cup.. :lol:
:ud:

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for the record, i was hoping for samples.
not sat thinking it was all real n stuff.


ps: illuminati music stuff
see mark devlin :hihi:
:ud:

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vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 pm but like i said, no one has bothered to try. thats the bit that made me chuckle.
seems like too much hard work just for jesus cup.. :lol:
Yeah, that is a bit daft (or should I say suspicious). I don't think the maths is that easy but it should be possible to mathematically reverse the interference patterns* into the tones, though you might be out on the size of the bowl - but you deal with that by simply moving the tones up and down.

* I do know one or two people who do that for a living with light (for the machines that make silicon chips).

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vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:03 pm ps: illuminati music stuff
see mark devlin :hihi:
Oh crap, this stuff's moving out of YouTube.

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Gamma-UT wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:08 pm
vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 pm but like i said, no one has bothered to try. thats the bit that made me chuckle.
seems like too much hard work just for jesus cup.. :lol:
Yeah, that is a bit daft (or should I say suspicious). I don't think the maths is that easy but it should be possible to mathematically reverse the interference patterns* into the tones, though you might be out on the size of the bowl - but you deal with that by simply moving the tones up and down.

* I do know one or two people who do that for a living with light (for the machines that make silicon chips).
cool.

the main issue id see is are the patterns the same depending on the medium?
ie if the mason was copying an image created using sand on a metal plate, would using water in a bowl create the same pattern?

as interesting as i find the images, ive never gome beyond that myself, just artistic appreciation.
:ud:

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vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 pm seems like too much hard work just for jesus cup.. :lol:
“2 messiahs 1 cup” reaction video?

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Forgotten wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:28 pm
vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 pm seems like too much hard work just for jesus cup.. :lol:
“2 messiahs 1 cup” reaction video?
later, i want you to remember this moment, when you, killed the thread.
anything i say now is just a reaction to this post, not my fault, yours...
:ud:

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:ud:

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vurt wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:21 pm the main issue id see is are the patterns the same depending on the medium?
ie if the mason was copying an image created using sand on a metal plate, would using water in a bowl create the same pattern?
The speed of sound changes with material but that results in a change of scale more than anything. I think the pattern should be the same given a known shape for the basin because it all depends on standing waves (like modal synthesis for drums).

Not actually tried it though.

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