Why you left Bitwig?

[Echoes in the Attic]

I haven't left Bitwig but I'm starting to realize that the DAW is overhyped with too little to show for the hype. On top of a subscription like update model that I don't care what anyone here says is a subscriptions model in everything but name. They might as well just start charging $10 bucks a month at this point.

I think you are misunderstanding what a subscription is, and/or what the Bitwig plan is. Subscriptions mean you need to keep paying to use it. With Bitwig you buy a perpetual license. It isn't anything at all to do with a subscription. You can pay at any time for the upgrade that you want, plus you get a free year of upgrades after that as well. It's the same as any other software where you need to pay for an upgrade. Except that you are guaranteed to have free updates for one year. And you can chose when to jump in, not just at for example a 1.x to 2.0.

It's too bad people spread misinformation like you are doing here, it just confuses people.

I pretty much disagree with everything else you said as well. The speed of their development far outshines many other DAWs.

[roman.i]

I think you are misunderstanding what a subscription is, and/or what the Bitwig plan is. Subscriptions mean you need to keep paying to use it. With Bitwig you buy a perpetual license. It isn't anything at all to do with a subscription. You can pay at any time for the upgrade that you want, plus you get a free year of upgrades after that as well. It's the same as any other software where you need to pay for an upgrade. Except that you are guaranteed to have free updates for one year. And you can chose when to jump in, not just at for example a 1.x to 2.0.

It's too bad people spread misinformation like you are doing here, it just confuses people.

I pretty much disagree with everything else you said as well. The speed of their development far outshines many other DAWs.

You clearly don't understand how software development works and how version release works, and that update and upgrade is not the same thing.
In a "classic" software purchase model you'll get a major version with a specified end-of-life time, for example 5 years and by that time you'll need to switch to a newer major version because your version won't be supported anymore. That means for 5 years, at least, you'll get updates - maintenance updates, for bugs, operating system support etc, and minor upgrades until the next major version appears, and usually a support from the company, all this included in the purchase price.
For example, Cubase 7 released in 2012 and the end of support was in 2019.
Upgrade means you can upgrade to a software with more features, but not everyone wants that immediately.
So Bitwig actually tries to sell a subscription, because otherwise your risk to loose the support for your version. Let's says after a year and a month Windows releases a critical update that brakes your Bitwig version. You'll probably need to buy the subscription to fix that, when other DAWs will fix this for free.
I'm not saying that the subscription model or the classic model is better, it's just not the same thing.

[pdxindy]

I think you are misunderstanding what a subscription is, and/or what the Bitwig plan is. Subscriptions mean you need to keep paying to use it. With Bitwig you buy a perpetual license. It isn't anything at all to do with a subscription. You can pay at any time for the upgrade that you want, plus you get a free year of upgrades after that as well. It's the same as any other software where you need to pay for an upgrade. Except that you are guaranteed to have free updates for one year. And you can chose when to jump in, not just at for example a 1.x to 2.0.

It's too bad people spread misinformation like you are doing here, it just confuses people.

I pretty much disagree with everything else you said as well. The speed of their development far outshines many other DAWs.

You clearly don't understand how software development works and how version release works, and that update and upgrade is not the same thing.
In a "classic" software purchase model you'll get a major version with a specified end-of-life time, for example 5 years and by that time you'll need to switch to a newer major version because your version won't be supported anymore. That means for 5 years, at least, you'll get updates - maintenance updates, for bugs, operating system support etc, and minor upgrades until the next major version appears, and usually a support from the company, all this included in the purchase price.
For example, Cubase 7 released in 2012 and the end of support was in 2019.
Upgrade means you can upgrade to a software with more features, but not everyone wants that immediately.
So Bitwig actually tries to sell a subscription, because otherwise your risk to loose the support for your version. Let's says after a year and a month Windows releases a critical update that brakes your Bitwig version. You'll probably need to buy the subscription to fix that, when other DAWs will fix this for free.
I'm not saying that the subscription model or the classic model is better, it's just not the same thing.

Are you saying that Cubase 7 continued to receive maintenance updates through 2019? I didn't know that. From my experience, that is more the exception.

My experience with software is that once the next major upgrade comes out, you cannot depend that your older version is maintained. It often isn't.

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

[stamp]

I switched to Bitwig after 8 or so years of Live. It is superstable. No crashes and no gui lag (Win10). Once I learned how to use it going back to Live simply wouldn't make any sense for me. It's better in everything. Only things missing are a groovepool and audio quantize.

[tooneba]

It's too bad people spread misinformation like you are doing here, it just confuses people.

It’s not conspiracy theory. People are confused because it is actually confusing. And it is subscription model like opt-in opt-out.

Basically in ‘major version update’ model developer has to deliver stable version in it for ethically keeping the marketing promise. But in this subscription model, you can get off from the criticism for not keeping the marketing promise. It may gives the mobility for their business and please the bankers but it appears that consumers aren’t buying it.

[deastman]

I’ve had Bitwig since the first version, but for some reason I’ve never really done any serious work in it. Truth is, I’m still perfectly content with Live for the vast majority of what I do. I open Bitwig when I need MPE support, and occasionally simply to play around with the modulation capabilities. There isn’t anything wrong with it, but I’ve never found a compelling reason to fully make the jump.

[tooneba]

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

You keep magazine after the end of subscription. It’s subscription because you don’t get newly produced materials.

Its known as subscription.

[roman.i]

Are you saying that Cubase 7 continued to receive maintenance updates through 2019? I didn't know that. From my experience, that is more the exception.

My experience with software is that once the next major upgrade comes out, you cannot depend that your older version is maintained. It often isn't.

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

Probably you haven't used any "industry standard" software or enterprise software. A company with a huge commercial user base can't just drop the support for the previous version after they release a new major version, until they verify all their clients successfully moved to the new major version, for obvious reasons. This process can take years.
And regarding Bitwig, this model meant to be a subscription model, but they tweaked it with a nice gimmick, just to make you feel like you own something. Yes, you have some unsupported, outdated, unprepared for future OS changes version that can brake anytime, that isn't a software you're going to rely on with your or your client projects. That's why this is a gimmick and not more.

[pdxindy]

Are you saying that Cubase 7 continued to receive maintenance updates through 2019? I didn't know that. From my experience, that is more the exception.

My experience with software is that once the next major upgrade comes out, you cannot depend that your older version is maintained. It often isn't.

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

Probably you haven't used any "industry standard" software or enterprise software. A company with a huge commercial user base can't just drop the support for the previous version after they release a new major version, until they verify all their clients successfully moved to the new major version, for obvious reasons. This process can take years.
And regarding Bitwig, this model meant to be a subscription model, but they tweaked it with a nice gimmick, just to make you feel like you own something.

This isn't a forum for users of enterprise software.

In any case, it doesn't interest me to argue over the meaning of the word. I am happy enough with the Bitwig pricing model because I am not required to pay an ongoing monthly fee (whatever you want to call it).

I switched away from Adobe software because they made it so I have to pay a monthly fee to keep using it. I don't want to do that. Bitwig doesn't do that which is the pertinent point (for me). If Bitwig switched to a model which required monthly fee or the software stops working, then I would also stop using it.

Yes, you have some unsupported, outdated, unprepared for future OS changes version that can brake anytime, that isn't a software you're going to rely on with your or your client projects. That's why this is a gimmick and not more.

I've worked in and around a number of professional studios of various sorts. In my experience it is not uncommon to depend on older software versions that are no longer supported. I've known quite a few pros who did not want to be on the bleeding edge of constant updates, feature changes, OS changes and so on. They would freeze the whole computer in a stable state.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I think you are misunderstanding what a subscription is, and/or what the Bitwig plan is. Subscriptions mean you need to keep paying to use it. With Bitwig you buy a perpetual license. It isn't anything at all to do with a subscription. You can pay at any time for the upgrade that you want, plus you get a free year of upgrades after that as well. It's the same as any other software where you need to pay for an upgrade. Except that you are guaranteed to have free updates for one year. And you can chose when to jump in, not just at for example a 1.x to 2.0.

It's too bad people spread misinformation like you are doing here, it just confuses people.

I pretty much disagree with everything else you said as well. The speed of their development far outshines many other DAWs.

You clearly don't understand how software development works and how version release works, and that update and upgrade is not the same thing.
In a "classic" software purchase model you'll get a major version with a specified end-of-life time, for example 5 years and by that time you'll need to switch to a newer major version because your version won't be supported anymore. That means for 5 years, at least, you'll get updates - maintenance updates, for bugs, operating system support etc, and minor upgrades until the next major version appears, and usually a support from the company, all this included in the purchase price.
For example, Cubase 7 released in 2012 and the end of support was in 2019.
Upgrade means you can upgrade to a software with more features, but not everyone wants that immediately.
So Bitwig actually tries to sell a subscription, because otherwise your risk to loose the support for your version. Let's says after a year and a month Windows releases a critical update that brakes your Bitwig version. You'll probably need to buy the subscription to fix that, when other DAWs will fix this for free.
I'm not saying that the subscription model or the classic model is better, it's just not the same thing.

I used the term upgrade to mean exactly what I said - Upgrade. Nowhere in anything I said was there any misspeak or confusion between updates and upgrades. Thank you for chiming in with your expert knowledge about "software development" Captain Obvious. They release little x.x.1 updates regularly, but upgrades with features tend to be the x.1. I think you somewhat overstating how long maintenance updates usually go with software that has since been upgraded to a major version. DAW makers don't tend to put a guaranteed time frame on maintenance updates. But that is different for different companies so we shouldn't try to generalize too much there either way.

It's a fair point that if a Windows update breaks your existing version you could be out of luck but that is very rare. I suppose on a mac this actually could be an issue though so yeah as a Mac user I probably would not invest in something if I wasn't sure I'd be getting updates for a very long time. Or, you know, just buy the damn upgrade every few years? If someone can't afford to pay a little over a hundred bucks every few years then I would strongly suggest they use a free DAW like Cakewalk by Bandlab. But even then, are there any guarantees about their updates? Subscription sucks, but the idea that you can buy something once that will last forever and ever and not have to pay anything ever again under any circumstance is just silly.

And by the way, is it a software developers fault that you updated your operating system when it was already working? That's a choice you make if you know that your tools will work with it. Or you roll back. I don't think you know how professional studios work.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I switched away from Adobe software because they made it so I have to pay a monthly fee to keep using it. I don't want to do that. Bitwig doesn't do that which is the pertinent point (for me). If Bitwig switched to a model which required monthly fee or the software stops working, then I would also stop using it.

Same here. I'd be out in a heart beat. Because that would be a subscription. And because we aren't complete morons and we understand what the word subscription actually means to normal people, we know that isn't currently the case.

[Rivanni]

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

You keep magazine after the end of subscription. It’s subscription because you don’t get newly produced materials.

Its known as subscription.

In today's software and cloud services land you normally don't keep the 'magazine'. So no, it's not a subscription if you look at the program.

[tooneba]

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

You keep magazine after the end of subscription. It’s subscription because you don’t get newly produced materials.

Its known as subscription.

In today's software and cloud services land you normally don't keep the 'magazine'. So no, it's not a subscription.

The idea Not being adobe model is not subscription is wrong. You can’t skew the definition by putting some gimmicky buzzword. It’s opt in out model and pay as you go.

[ckam03]

Bitwig is not a subscription. With a subscription, you must keep paying (usually monthly) or you lose the use of the software. With Bitwig, even if I do not pay anything further, I can keep using my current version of Bitwig for as long as I want.

You keep magazine after the end of subscription. It’s subscription because you don’t get newly produced materials.

Its known as subscription.

In today's software and cloud services land you normally don't keep the 'magazine'. So no, it's not a subscription.

The idea Not being adobe model is not subscription is wrong. You can’t skew the definition by putting some gimmicky buzzword. It’s opt in out model and pay as you go.

That's literally what you're doing. You're just using a strawman. You can't be using something physical as your argument when talking about software because the conditions aren't the same. If you subscribe to ESPN, you don't get to keep the extra articles and content you have access to when you were a subscriber. If you subscribe to Netflix, you don't get to keep the movies and tv shows you watched.I can go on.

[metaside]

That's literally what you're doing. You're just using a strawman. You can't be using something physical as your argument when talking about software because the conditions aren't the same. If you subscribe to ESPN, you don't get to keep the extra articles and content you have access to when you were a subscriber. If you subscribe to Netflix, you don't get to keep the movies and tv shows you watched.I can go on.

Although one might argue that the semantic shift from "subscription = you own what you pay for" to "subscription = you do not own anything if you don't keep giving us money" is a noteworthy linguistic or societal development...?