Why you left Bitwig?
-
- KVRAF
- 4468 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell
ironically, i would've been very interested in Bitwig as a subscription. as it stands, i have no plans to switch from REAPER, and even though i like the features i would be getting for live use, they're not justification enough to shell out $350 for it, considering i'm not sure i would've even continued to use it after a while. so, for me, a Bitwig-as-a-subscription would've been a perfect option.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.
-
Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 12010 posts since 12 May, 2008
Blasphemy!!!!!Burillo wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:54 pm ironically, i would've been very interested in Bitwig as a subscription. as it stands, i have no plans to switch from REAPER, and even though i like the features i would be getting for live use, they're not justification enough to shell out $350 for it, considering i'm not sure i would've even continued to use it after a while. so, for me, a Bitwig-as-a-subscription would've been a perfect option.
FYI, you can usually find a used version that still has lots of time left on the update plan in the marketplace. There's some great Bitwig deals there from time to time.
-
- KVRAF
- 4468 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell
of course i can, everyone is leaving Bitwig apparently...Echoes in the Attic wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:05 pm FYI, you can usually find a used version that still has lots of time left on the update plan in the marketplace. There's some great Bitwig deals there from time to time.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.
-
- KVRAF
- 9546 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
I do have experience with Phase Plant and MSoundfacory as both had been part of an OSC. I had a complete month to explore both. Basically the same happened. Whenever I had a more complex idea I would rather switch to the Grid. They are capable and are comparable feature wise, but MSoundfactory is a technocratic complicated monster not very inspiring, and PP has beside the wavetable not much more than very basic oscillators and filters (and does not support MPE...).Trancit wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:48 amThe Grid is quite cool for doing complex stuff quite elegant but you´ve got no idea what e.g. kilohearts stuff is capable of or Unfiltered audio or Melda...Tj Shredder wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:51 amI don’t need kilohearts phase plant, because the Grid is way ahead and I get results way faster. In fact, the Grid alone diminishes my need for other synths significantly...
The Grid can keep the pace for the first 10% and then offers like Bitwig in total a bit of the nerdy stuff which is perhaps quite usefull for a small amount of music types but that´s it... which might be enough for you but I don´t think it´s enough for many others...
Soundwise and featurewise the Grid cannot compete with these complete packages in any way...
Lion isn’t bad, I finally got it in the last PA offer together with Byome and Triad, it adds some variety and supports MPE... But to phrase your words, sound wise and feature wise the Grid can easily compete. PP definitely cannot and MSF could maybe feature wise, its just too complicated to get to useful results...
But as always thats just me...
-
- KVRian
- 671 posts since 11 May, 2014
Agreed. I demoed Phase Plant for quite a bit and while it was nice, I just kept asking myself why? I didn't even actually want it because I have the Grid.
-
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
That's the benefit of 4x oversampling
-
- KVRAF
- 9546 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
-
- addled muppet weed
- 111253 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
it made a pass at my guitar.
-
- addled muppet weed
- 111253 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
and 4 legs.
like a dogman, when theyre quadrupedal rather than when theyre bipedal.
-
- KVRAF
- 9546 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
At least it has 6 more strings... (or infinitesimal times more...)
-
- KVRian
- 1451 posts since 4 Oct, 2012 from Utah
I'll throw in my two cents here.
Bitwig, in my opinion, is much more of an instrument than it is a DAW. This is perfect for me, as I spend more time with sound design than I do with composing. I started out with Mutools Mulab, which follows a similar principle. Both Mulab and Bitwig are modular instruments with composing and arranging capabilities. It just so happens that Bitwigs capabilities are more than good enough for my needs, especially when it comes to sound design.
That being said, Bitwig is not at all a composers dream. About the only saving grace it has is MPE/pitch sliding in it's MIDI editor. Outside of that, it's MIDI editing is pretty basic. For me this is fine, but many others like more tools at their disposal for composing. Yes, there are modules for processing MIDI, creating arps, harmonies, etc... but these aren't composed. Many DAW users, as was stated earlier, don't want a modular synthesizer. They want a full featured DAW. Bitwig simply is not that.
Bitwig excels at what it's good at: modular sound design. There's a module for every signal path. I can process transients however I'd like, there's a 2 and 3 band splitter, mid-side splitter, and plenty of effects and mix and match. The default instruments are pretty decent for coming pre-packaged wit the DAW. And with the GRID, it's hard to say that Bitwig doesn't give you a "suite" of options when it comes to synth and effect processing options.
Now, Bitwigs GRID is not PhasePlant, or MSoundFactory. The GRID is a fantastic modular toolkit with enough options to keep those interested signal processing happy. However, it's simply not going to compete with the FM/PM capabilities of PhasePlant (GRID doesn't support oscillator self modulation), or the incredible suite of options that MSF has. Not to mention, while the GRID can sound very good, 4x oversampling is a lot for "just making an instrument". I know. How dare I say it's "just an instrument". But when I want to make a polyphonic unison pad from wavetables, the GRID simply isn't going to cut it. No oscillator unison (this is a huge problem for me), no easy way to do stereo spread, and no editable wave table oscillator.
I love the GRID though! It's great for some beautiful FM patches! I also have fun making experimental effects with it. But no, it's no PhasePlant or Melda.
Now to address the purchasing model. JetBrains, a software company that develops software for developing software (okay I could have worded that better but it's more fun this way), has their ToolBox collection. I pay for update subscription every year. Now, when I update, I get a perpetual license for the software, meaning if I don't pay into the subscription, I still have a version of the software I can use "forever". Of course anyone here who develops software knows that new features, language updates, and changes in standards will always warrant the need for updates and upgrades. Thus, I pay the subscription every year.
Bitwig is similar to this, although slightly more forgiving. With JetBrains, you only get perpetual licences for the version at purchase, meaning at the end of the update subscription, you have to revert to the older version released the previous year. Ick. Bitwig, let's you keep the license for the last version released before your subscription ends. Much better. But what do IDE's and DAW's have in common that warrant a similar pricing model? Eh, not much. But I'm personally used to the model.
Yes in comparison to other DAWs out there Bitwig can be expensive. It can also be very inexpensive if you'd like. You don't have to keep it up to date all the time, and unlike software development, I honestly don't believe there's a need to have the most up to date DAW all the time. Maybe it's because I came from Mulab, which is a simple software, but once you pass simple MIDI editing, audio editing, and plugin hosting, you can call a software a DAW. After that, the other features are simply there to help improve the workflow. Bitwig does that for some, and not for many others. It's not a composition software. It's a sound design software.
For me, Bitwig is great! I work quickly in it, and can get the results I want with ease. But, I'm also one of those weird people who think like a sound designer, and not a composer. I love MSoundFactory, despite the fact it's like reading a Differential Equations textbook at times. To me, that's inspiring. To many others, they're going to wonder why the hell math bled into their composing. And that's okay! We need a lot of both. We need masterful composers who understand music theory and emotions far better than I ever will. But we also need sound designers bring that delicious sound in so that one may compose with it. Tool for the job guys. Bitwig is a great tool for me and not for others. That's simply how it is.
Bitwig, in my opinion, is much more of an instrument than it is a DAW. This is perfect for me, as I spend more time with sound design than I do with composing. I started out with Mutools Mulab, which follows a similar principle. Both Mulab and Bitwig are modular instruments with composing and arranging capabilities. It just so happens that Bitwigs capabilities are more than good enough for my needs, especially when it comes to sound design.
That being said, Bitwig is not at all a composers dream. About the only saving grace it has is MPE/pitch sliding in it's MIDI editor. Outside of that, it's MIDI editing is pretty basic. For me this is fine, but many others like more tools at their disposal for composing. Yes, there are modules for processing MIDI, creating arps, harmonies, etc... but these aren't composed. Many DAW users, as was stated earlier, don't want a modular synthesizer. They want a full featured DAW. Bitwig simply is not that.
Bitwig excels at what it's good at: modular sound design. There's a module for every signal path. I can process transients however I'd like, there's a 2 and 3 band splitter, mid-side splitter, and plenty of effects and mix and match. The default instruments are pretty decent for coming pre-packaged wit the DAW. And with the GRID, it's hard to say that Bitwig doesn't give you a "suite" of options when it comes to synth and effect processing options.
Now, Bitwigs GRID is not PhasePlant, or MSoundFactory. The GRID is a fantastic modular toolkit with enough options to keep those interested signal processing happy. However, it's simply not going to compete with the FM/PM capabilities of PhasePlant (GRID doesn't support oscillator self modulation), or the incredible suite of options that MSF has. Not to mention, while the GRID can sound very good, 4x oversampling is a lot for "just making an instrument". I know. How dare I say it's "just an instrument". But when I want to make a polyphonic unison pad from wavetables, the GRID simply isn't going to cut it. No oscillator unison (this is a huge problem for me), no easy way to do stereo spread, and no editable wave table oscillator.
I love the GRID though! It's great for some beautiful FM patches! I also have fun making experimental effects with it. But no, it's no PhasePlant or Melda.
Now to address the purchasing model. JetBrains, a software company that develops software for developing software (okay I could have worded that better but it's more fun this way), has their ToolBox collection. I pay for update subscription every year. Now, when I update, I get a perpetual license for the software, meaning if I don't pay into the subscription, I still have a version of the software I can use "forever". Of course anyone here who develops software knows that new features, language updates, and changes in standards will always warrant the need for updates and upgrades. Thus, I pay the subscription every year.
Bitwig is similar to this, although slightly more forgiving. With JetBrains, you only get perpetual licences for the version at purchase, meaning at the end of the update subscription, you have to revert to the older version released the previous year. Ick. Bitwig, let's you keep the license for the last version released before your subscription ends. Much better. But what do IDE's and DAW's have in common that warrant a similar pricing model? Eh, not much. But I'm personally used to the model.
Yes in comparison to other DAWs out there Bitwig can be expensive. It can also be very inexpensive if you'd like. You don't have to keep it up to date all the time, and unlike software development, I honestly don't believe there's a need to have the most up to date DAW all the time. Maybe it's because I came from Mulab, which is a simple software, but once you pass simple MIDI editing, audio editing, and plugin hosting, you can call a software a DAW. After that, the other features are simply there to help improve the workflow. Bitwig does that for some, and not for many others. It's not a composition software. It's a sound design software.
For me, Bitwig is great! I work quickly in it, and can get the results I want with ease. But, I'm also one of those weird people who think like a sound designer, and not a composer. I love MSoundFactory, despite the fact it's like reading a Differential Equations textbook at times. To me, that's inspiring. To many others, they're going to wonder why the hell math bled into their composing. And that's okay! We need a lot of both. We need masterful composers who understand music theory and emotions far better than I ever will. But we also need sound designers bring that delicious sound in so that one may compose with it. Tool for the job guys. Bitwig is a great tool for me and not for others. That's simply how it is.
Software portfolio
M.N.I.E - soon to be my musical portfolio
Hey, I'm Eurydice(Izzy for short) - she/her
M.N.I.E - soon to be my musical portfolio
Hey, I'm Eurydice(Izzy for short) - she/her
-
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Have you tried voice stacking features? Or just dulpicating the oscillators and detuning / panning them manually?dakkra wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:19 pmNo oscillator unison (this is a huge problem for me), no easy way to do stereo spread, and no editable wave table oscillator.
-
- KVRian
- 1451 posts since 4 Oct, 2012 from Utah
Voice stacking get's CPU intensive very fast and doesn't have intuitive stereo spread (yes I get that it's just a macro, but I dislike setting that up for something this simple). Duplicating oscillators is simply not intuitive nor convenient. I understand the whole pure signal idea behind the GRID, I really do. And yes, it's possible to do unison sounds with effort. I never claimed it was impossible. However, it's just not as simple or easy as many other modular synths (MUX, Falcon, and MSF being examples from what I own).antic604 wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:49 pmHave you tried voice stacking features? Or just dulpicating the oscillators and detuning / panning them manually?dakkra wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:19 pmNo oscillator unison (this is a huge problem for me), no easy way to do stereo spread, and no editable wave table oscillator.
Of course the GRID is great in some areas (seriously those pure modular patches that guys like Polarity put out are amazing) but for general purpose sound design it's hit and miss for me. But that's why I have plugins
Software portfolio
M.N.I.E - soon to be my musical portfolio
Hey, I'm Eurydice(Izzy for short) - she/her
M.N.I.E - soon to be my musical portfolio
Hey, I'm Eurydice(Izzy for short) - she/her