Why you left Ableton?

[pdxindy]

TV ICONS OR GTFO!!!! I WANT TO WATCH TV!!!!!

Actually I'm with that one dude on that — when I demod bitwig it took me too long to figure out how to open the plugin window

If you hover over any icon, it shows what it does along the bottom.

These days the live interactive help is very good. Select any Bitwig device and hit F1

[Trancit]

The only issue left is the order of plugins on a single track...
You strictly have to keep automated or transport synced plugins before any latency plugins...
Following this rule everything runs fine...

Yeah, that usually works fine. The problem is when you want to have some synced effect (eg. LFO Tool for sidechaining) on a group and constantly have to be aware of the latency added from the child tracks.

Yes, that´s a problem where you can just get around by bouncing any latency plugins before continuing with something like LFOtool... sad but true...

[antic604]

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin? How in the hell does a computer monitor, which I clearly stated it was supposed to represent, in any way make sense as an icon to call up Diva's GUI? I recognize that they seem to have used the generic icon Ableton uses to indicate it's own built in devices in the browser, but that to begin with was a dumb idea IMO. Not sure why you're calling a wrench a cog? unless that's a native to your region term for a crescent wrench? A tool makes sense to call up a GUI, a male electrical wall icon makes the most sense, but a wrench denotes action.
Because of this I did not spend any amount of time looking for the wrench icon to open the GUI in Live, a wrench is a tool you use to teak something with, it's a clear indicator that it's going to call up settings or parameters. Bitwig has seemingly random icon use, in the browser instruments get a little piano icon that calls up or is used to drag into the tracks. On a track this icon is Input Monitoring.

No. The icon isn't a computer monitor. It's a "computer window", like all the windows ...in Windows. The difference is clear - computer monitor has a chin on the bottom, where all the controls are. Computer window has a header up top, where all the menus and a bar to drag it around are.

Bitwig icon is the latter, because it invokes a pop-up window: either VST or for native devices. It makes total sense.

Yes, I meant "wrench", which is also most often used for options / settings.

[antic604]

Bitwig has seemingly random icon use, in the browser instruments get a little piano icon that calls up or is used to drag into the tracks. On a track this icon is Input Monitoring.

Again, grasping at straws.

Piano roll icon represents instruments played with MIDI signal - therefore it's used to represent multisampled instruments in Browser (you can't play them without MIDI) and in the Inspector Panel it represents MIDI input monitoring.

Waveform icon represents audio files and in Inspector Panel it represents audio input monitoring.

This isn't the only WTF moment in Bitwig, what's with the tiny faders? why give them no handle? In Live you can stretch the faders to about a third of the monitor.

Oh, definitely! People have beed asking for that since release date and I've no idea why proper faders aren't there yet. Personally this doesn't bother me, because I always Ctrl+click and type in the value in ALL the DAWs I have, well except for Reason because it doesn't have that feature. Dragging virtual faders for me just doesn't work, no matter their size - it's always klunky and very imprecise.

But since you brought up Live as an example of better solution, how about you try to see the mixer in Arrangement view? Or see all the inserts on the channel like in any other DAW?

...but to even pretend for a second that Bitwig doesn't have some as well is just crazy.

Where did I say it doesn't? Just look up my posts about how automation picker or device nesting are badly represented, IMO. I'm just saying I disagree with your particular example ("computer monitor", LOL).

[Vladislav_Gronk]

I agree with the above that some are really grasping at straws here. I don't see how the icon to open plugin windows matters in any way since you need to learn it once and unlike Ableton it's consistent across all plugins. Pretty weird complaint imo.

The only issue left is the order of plugins on a single track...
You strictly have to keep automated or transport synced plugins before any latency plugins...
Following this rule everything runs fine...

Yeah, that usually works fine. The problem is when you want to have some synced effect (eg. LFO Tool for sidechaining) on a group and constantly have to be aware of the latency added from the child tracks.

Yes, that´s a problem where you can just get around by bouncing any latency plugins before continuing with something like LFOtool... sad but true...

If only the freeze function could unload the latency. Unableton.

[machinesworking]

No. The icon isn't a computer monitor. It's a "computer window", like all the windows ...in Windows. The difference is clear - computer monitor has a chin on the bottom, where all the controls are. Computer window has a header up top, where all the menus and a bar to drag it around are.

Bitwig icon is the latter, because it invokes a pop-up window: either VST or for native devices. It makes total sense.

I don't use Windows, and what it looks like to me is Windows resizing icon, it's still a stupid choice, we're not going to agree on this, if they wanted a good choice it would have been a male electrical socket IMO.

Yes, I meant "wrench", which is also most often used for options / settings.

Options/ Settings on every device I own is a sprocket, universally the most common icon for preferences, options, settings etc.

[stamp]

TV ICONS OR GTFO!!!! I WANT TO WATCH TV!!!!!

Actually I'm with that one dude on that — when I demod bitwig it took me too long to figure out how to open the plugin window

If you hover over any icon, it shows what it does along the bottom.

These days the live interactive help is very good. Select any Bitwig device and hit F1

There's also this thing called manual. I've recently discovered that nearly every piece of software comes with one and that the first chapters usually describe the user interface. Incredible.

[stamp]

... if they wanted a good choice it would have been a male electrical socket IMO.

Why? Doesn't make any sense...

[machinesworking]

Again, grasping at straws.

Piano roll icon represents instruments played with MIDI signal - therefore it's used to represent multisampled instruments in Browser (you can't play them without MIDI) and in the Inspector Panel it represents MIDI input monitoring.

Waveform icon represents audio files and in Inspector Panel it represents audio input monitoring.

Right, and that explains why the same device is used for two distinctly different things.

In Live on tracks it's labeled "Monitor", In, Auto and Off. Which do you think is more intuitive?

Oh, definitely! People have beed asking for that since release date and I've no idea why proper faders aren't there yet. Personally this doesn't bother me, because I always Ctrl+click and type in the value in ALL the DAWs I have, well except for Reason because it doesn't have that feature. Dragging virtual faders for me just doesn't work, no matter their size - it's always klunky and very imprecise.

Yeah, that's some serious dog with it's tail cut off logic. Reaper wins the game here, resizable to full screen even. I think you would seriously speed up your workflow to learn the key command in various DAWs for fine fader movements, haven't learned it in Bitwig yet, but I would be shocked if it wasn't there.
I have Push 2, Möss made a fantastic control support for Push, but even then, the faders are the smallest I've seen in a DAW.

But since you brought up Live as an example of better solution, how about you try to see the mixer in Arrangement view? Or see all the inserts on the channel like in any other DAW?

Like a lot of things, if you know the DAW you can do both, Live allows for two windows, so there's your two views, and there's a script to let you view the inserts.

Again, I am not comparing actual features here, but UX, and Bitwig is very arguably worse than Live UX wise. The caveat to that is Bitwig looks to be from my observations much better once you understand it's UX, i.e. it's a bigger learning curve, but better user experience once you get over it's initial rough spots and idiosyncrasies.

Where did I say it doesn't? Just look up my posts about how automation picker or device nesting are badly represented, IMO. I'm just saying I disagree with your particular example ("computer monitor", LOL).

That's the definition of cherry picking.
You come on strong when your baby is attacked.

[machinesworking]

... if they wanted a good choice it would have been a male electrical socket IMO.

Why? Doesn't make any sense...

Because VSTs and embedded instruments are plug ins, like an an electrical plug in. VST has used this for years. It's pretty straight forward. All of us have used an electrical cord. Something that looks like a plug rather than a computer monitor or window makes much more sense. The two prong version make the most sense but hey..

[Vladislav_Gronk]

That's the definition of cherry picking.

Those complaints seem pretty reasonable. You on the other hand are arguing about the look of the... device expansion icon?

The user literally clicks on that square thing once and learns that "oh, this opens the plugin window".

[Robert Randolph]

... if they wanted a good choice it would have been a male electrical socket IMO.

Why? Doesn't make any sense...

Plug in an electrical socket.

Plug in

[tooneba]

We reinvented the wheel. It isn’t plugin because we call it device

[stamp]

Well, whatever. The point is that it could be a banana. Once you know what a button does, you know what it does.

[machinesworking]

That's the definition of cherry picking.

Those complaints seem pretty reasonable. You on the other hand are arguing about the look of the... device expansion icon?

The user literally clicks on that square thing once and learns that "oh, this opens the plugin window".

Read my initial post.
All I've been saying is that Bitwig has some UX issues that older DAWs have. Had you read that you would understand I never said it was unusable, I said it was a weird choice of icon, not great UX.

Again, what's with the cherry picking? Do you also think that monitoring is best served the way Live presents it, or Bitwig? Again, I'm looking at switching to Bitwig for the same sort of work I do with Live, I'm not "the enemy", but to pretend that UX wise Bitwig doesn't have weird snags when you first approach it is IMO just fanboyism, of the kind that Reaper has, where any criticism is met with circular arguments.