Behringer TD-3 Analog Bass Line Synthesizer

[Stefken]

It's big brother is in the works.
Devil(f)ish...

https://m.facebook.com/behringer/photos ... &source=48

http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/beh ... uthorised/

Didn't read it all but comes across as a tantrum because Uli and him didn't come to an agreement.
A royalty payment for each unit sold being one of his demands.
Payment being 15% of the retail price which Devilfish guy would set at double the price for the TD-3. So 155 euro x 2 x 0.15 = 46,5 euro for each unit sold. I don't know how many units typically are sold but even 20.000 units is considered a 'limited edition'.
So we're probably talking millions of euro's here.

Sounds he was hoping for a sweet deal and now he'll have nothing. So he decided to start throwing mud on Behringer.

I guess Behringer wasn't bad when he could make money out of it...

[Mushy Mushy]

And from the other side which includes the full email trail:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=4579

Robin sounds like a right wanker.

[justin3am]

And from the other side which includes the full email trail:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=4579

Robin sounds like a right wanker.

I would be too, if I were in his position. It would be difficult to react rationally. Is this really a good look for Behringer?

[Mushy Mushy]

And from the other side which includes the full email trail:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=4579

Robin sounds like a right wanker.

I would be too, if I were in his position. It would be difficult to react rationally. Is this really a good look for Behringer?

They have a right to defend their position. Robin should have never released the conversation, that’s just bad business. Robin could really have benefited from this in a big way by simply compromising rather than throwing his toys out of the pram at the first push back. That’s business after all.

[justin3am]

I should not have spoken on this subject. It's not my place and I forgot that my employer's name is in my signature. I do not speak for my employer, in this case. It's just something I take very personally and as a result I reacted emotionally.
Business sucks (my personal opinion).

[Mushy Mushy]

I should not have spoken on this subject. It's not my place and I forgot that my employer's name is in my signature. I do not speak for my employer, in this case. It's just something I take very personally and as a result I reacted emotionally.
Business sucks (my personal opinion).

[chk071]

I find it rather interesting that something like that comes from a guy who largely benefitted from pimping a product which is not his own (Devil Fish mod for Roland's TB-303).

Guy in a glass house?

[Stefken]

Uli responded on gearslutz with full details of the communication. Basically, what he is saying is that these are simple mods with a component cost of 3 dollars. Paying 300.000 dollars/year and doubling product price doesn't match with his customer philosophy.

Uli also provided full communication details in which Robin stated amongst others things that he would make a high end metal casing devilfish, selling it for 2K, and which would yield him 1K profit per unit. (I'm stating this by heart as the post has disappeared by now). Robin is free to do so off course but it's obvious that he's not going for small profit margins.

To compare : Uli could probably bring his devilfish to market for 200 euro/dollar (or less) which is 1/10th of Robin's version.

[Heinakroon]

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

And from the other side which includes the full email trail:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=4579 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14513109&postcount=4579)

Robin sounds like a right wanker.

The GS post has been taken down, but here's Uli Behringer’s response in full: https://textuploader.com/16l0e (https://textuploader.com/16l0e)

[VitaminD]

I find it rather interesting that something like that comes from a guy who largely benefitted from pimping a product which is not his own (Devil Fish mod for Roland's TB-303).

Guy in a glass house?

I was thinking the same thing. What a mess. He should have just taken the deal or, at the least, tried to negotiate a more reasonable offer than 300k a year. I am not very happy with the Behringer stance though on what they were expecting out of it for the little they were allegedly offering (15k).

Yet the alterations aren't exactly patented? What is stopping Behringer from modifying the TD3 design and adding additional features as they please and naming it something different? That is to say, they didn't have to engage the DF folks at all to make an enhanced 303-like synth...

I will agree though the 'Murdered out' naming is stupid, but so is 'devil fish' to me. Maybe that is attractive to 15 year old boys, but it is not something I want labeled on my synthesizers. Legit Homie Dope Goldchainz Edition.. Rubber Ducky Edition maybe.. Numbfish Version.. no no..

Just make an enhanced model. Add a delay effect too please.

[Stefken]

Behringer will apparently not do a 1:1 DF mod but has opened up the discussion and has reached out to their customers to just ask them what mods they want. Which is a good thing. RW may not have legal claims on the DF mods but if they are not going to work with them, it's a good thing to show the respect.

There have been all kinds of mods, so you can request your favorite mod here:

https://m.facebook.com/behringer/photos ... on_generic

And this new thread:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... oser=false

[Scotty]

Devil Fish is going to do fine regardless. There are going to be tons of new 303s (clones) in the marketplace. Some of those new owners will want the best quality switches, pots and modifications and he can react accordingly.

Behringer won't do all the mods that are possible nor with they use the highest quality parts. That will give him another opportunity to differentiate his boutique modding business. There will be people who will pay for that service for the yet to be released new Murdered Out TD-3 and the currently shipping TD-3.

He won't get all expense paid speaking engagement trips or an automatic $300 000 dollar salary for using his name or a percentage of royalties. He'll have to work for it like he has always done AND he can thank Behringer for it because the supply of 303 style products and customers willing to pay for his service has just grown substantially.

The only losers here are Roland for not truly appreciating the legacy of their own product catalog. For them this is a huge lost opportunity. For the rest of us including Mr. Devil Fish this is a win/win.

Behringer just gave Mr. Devil Fish a lucrative life line even if he doesn't know it.

[Stefken]

We'll see.
Behringer has an opportunity here to deliver a product that is better than the DF mod. With the help of the modding community to which they are already reaching out.

- create a mod that is more musical and has a larger sweetspot than the DF
- optimised design; the DF mod is just amateur hour on design level
- sequencing: better sequencer that allows live tweaking while the pattern runs, better daw integration

There is also the XOXbox and Avalon that Behringer can look at. As they state, they might make multiple mods.

Not sure how many people will go for the DF mod at 1200 dollars then...

As for Roland. They clearly have chosen for the DSP route. I think people would kill for analog re-issues and if you look at the prices Korg is asking for re-issues, floating on the waves of the second hand market prices, they could make a lot of money on it.

[Scotty]

Yes I just read that post that they are wanting to work with other modders and they may do more than one version. That complicates it for Devil Fish. I still think there will be some people who will pay for their service if they are using really high quality components - not very many people could afford their services before and the supply of 303s was drying up. Still an opportunity for them but they will be trying to guess where Behringer is going which is a difficult spot to be in if you are trying to build a business based on a moving target.

We'll see.
Behringer has an opportunity here to deliver a product that is better than the DF mod. With the help of the modding community to which they are already reaching out.

- create a mod that is more musical and has a larger sweetspot than the DF
- optimised design; the DF mod is just amateur hour on design level
- sequencing: better sequencer that allows live tweaking while the pattern runs, better daw integration

There is also the XOXbox and Avalon that Behringer can look at. As they state, they might make multiple mods.

Not sure how many people will go for the DF mod at 1200 dollars then...

As for Roland. They clearly have chosen for the DSP route. I think people would kill for analog re-issues and if you look at the prices Korg is asking for re-issues, floating on the waves of the second hand market prices, they could make a lot of money on it.

[AnX]

so DF just lost the chance of getting 15k for doing nothing?