Why you left Bitwig?

[Reefius]

I'm not aware of any update to 9.x past Feb 2018 when Live 10 was released.

The last update for Live 9 was released on August 31 2018.
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=173602

Anyway, it's been 2 years now since the release of Live 10 and it looks like Live 11 will not be here any time soon. In the meantime all updates are FREE. Eat that, Bitwig fanboys

[EnGee]

Nah! My Bitwig is like my Toyota. It runs forever, no need to upgrade

[pdxindy]

In the meantime all updates are FREE. Eat that, Bitwig fanboys

Hehehe...

The cost either way is so incidental compared to the rest of my studio that for me the argument is meaningless.

I liked Live when I used it... then I bought a Linnstrument and needed a DAW that supported MPE. I'm glad I didn't wait cause with all those FREE updates, Live still doesn't support MPE or even record PolyAT.

[Kinh]

They made the grid , modular , etc .... But a basic function like midi time stretch no. I left after version 3 . All other daw offer this as default ...

The question is what percentage of time that you spend producing music is actually dedicated to stretching MIDI clips? And if the time you're losing not having this feature natively in Bitwig isn't more than made up by other things it's faster at than 'other DAWs'?

So for instance Bitwig doesn't have 'default DAW features' like audio comping, musical notation, VCA faders, adding same plugin to multiple channels, audio pitch-editor (like VariFlex in Cubase), etc. ...but I personally never needed any of them! For my music and my workflow, I need to be able to quickly create complex, multi-layered instrument & FX chains that constantly shift & move, often in a random fashion and Bitwig's containers, splitters and modulation system is far easier, more flexible & efficient than anything other DAWs offer, not to mention most DAWs don't offer those features at all. For me those are 'default DAW features'.

In the end choosing of a DAW comes down to optimising workflow - find one that does the things you do the most of best and irritates you the least for everything else

You're on tha wrong thread. This is why you 'left' bitwig not why you 'stayed'. How'z-a-bout yo stick to da script

[antic604]

You're on tha wrong thread. This is why you 'left' bitwig not why you 'stayed'. How'z-a-bout yo stick to da script

No, not really. Just trying to show people to be reasonable with all this. At one time I thought "damn, Bitwig doesn't have linked/alias clips - that's unacceptable!" so I got myself Cubase. And was miserable using that clunky, bloated and confusing PoS. Turns out I only ever needed that maybe 2-3% of the time, whereas I couldn't live without my Layers / Selectors, Splitters, modulation, hybrid tracks, proper high-DPI support that I use ALL the time.

[Biscotto]

You're on tha wrong thread. This is why you 'left' bitwig not why you 'stayed'. How'z-a-bout yo stick to da script

No, not really. Just trying to show people to be reasonable with all this. At one time I thought "damn, Bitwig doesn't have linked/alias clips - that's unacceptable!" so I got myself Cubase. And was miserable using that clunky, bloated and confusing PoS. Turns out I only ever needed that maybe 2-3% of the time, whereas I couldn't live without my Layers / Selectors, Splitters, modulation, hybrid tracks, proper high-DPI support that I use ALL the time.

It’s not about being reasonable but just the feeling of being comfortable with a tool.
It’s not all intellectual.
I still use Ableton in most cases when I need a fast workflow to crystallize my ideas, and out of all daws I own, nothing surpasses Ableton (for me) for that, and that’s when I leave Bitwig for days.
It’s personal and way beyond reasonable.

[antic604]

It’s not about being reasonable but just the feeling of being comfortable with a tool.It’s not all intellectual.

Yeah, yeah. I meant "reasonable" in terms of discussing the choice, not in making it (although it should play a big part, too).

[dellboy]

No, not really. Just trying to show people to be reasonable with all this. At one time I thought "damn, Bitwig doesn't have linked/alias clips - that's unacceptable!" so I got myself Cubase. And was miserable using that clunky, bloated and confusing PoS. Turns out I only ever needed that maybe 2-3% of the time, whereas I couldn't live without my Layers / Selectors, Splitters, modulation, hybrid tracks, proper high-DPI support that I use ALL the time.

Your negative post about Cubase illustrates how juvenile all this "my DAW is better than your DAW" stuff is.

I own three DAWs, Cubase Pro - Studio One Pro - Waveform 10, and I spend the majority of my time in Cubase.

I have Bitwig 8 track and Ableton Live Lite and used to use them for pattern sequencing. But since I bought Cubase in the last sale I never bother with them anymore as I can do that loop base pattern stuff just as well in Cubase.

And I know that if ever I need some esoteric deep tool to do a certain job that its somewhere in Cubase even if it requires a bit of digging to find it.

In the end it comes down to what sort of music a person makes and what tools a person needs to do the job.

[Kongru]

I got myself Cubase. And was miserable using that clunky, bloated and confusing PoS.

Go start a Why You Left Cubase? thread

[antic604]

Your negative post about Cubase illustrates how juvenile all this "my DAW is better than your DAW" stuff is.

Believe me, I went back & forth with whether or not to adjust that particular section of the post, but it's really how I feel using it... And I'm not saying anyone who uses Cubase is stupid or anything like that. It's about MY experience.

I REALLY did my best with Cubase to make it work, I even sold my license once and bought it again when 10.5 came out, but I just can't make myself use it... First thing is that it completely sucks at supporting trackpad gestures - I mean they work, but are overly, through-the-roof sensitive so a small scroll to zoom arrangement goes from showing 1 bar to 200 bars; or small scroll in VST library takes me from 1st to the last (and I've got quite a lot of them). To make it usable you need to just hold the fingers still on the trackpad and shift their weight ever so slightly. And no - it's not my settings or setup, as all the other DAWs (Bitwig, Live, S1, Reason) work perfectly & predictably in this regard. Then it's all those endless, multiple-level menus, settings, preferenes everywhere. Further it's the overwhelming feeling that everything is kinda bolted-on onto an old, database-like framework, like it's very shaky and on the verge of breaking down (and it did few times, which never happened in other DAWs). And lastly I was shocked to find out how rudimentary, unfinished and frankly arrogant their "support" for high-DPI is: it's either 100% or 200% and if a plugin isn't high-DPI aware (most still isn't) then "f**k you!", use a magnifying lens. That was simply unusable on Surface Pro and is still barely accetable on a 1080p laptop.

So yeah. I tried most of the DAWs and in many cases - Reaper, FL, Waveform - I'd just shrug and go "yeah, it's just not for me" and be completely, reasonably neutral about it.

But I really wanted to like Cubase, because I appreciate its depth, power & flexibility. But every time I try it it's infuriating.

So I'm sorry for the "PoS", but it's the only DAW that I had such irrational reaction with

[dellboy]

Believe me, I went back & forth with whether or not to adjust that particular section of the post, but it's really how I feel using it... And I'm not saying anyone who uses Cubase is stupid or anything like that. It's about MY experience.

I REALLY did my best with Cubase to make it work, I even sold my license once and bought it again when 10.5 came out, but I just can't make myself use it... First thing is that it completely sucks at supporting trackpad gestures - I mean they work, but are overly, through-the-roof sensitive so a small scroll to zoom arrangement goes from showing 1 bar to 200 bars; or small scroll in VST library takes me from 1st to the last (and I've got quite a lot of them). To make it usable you need to just hold the fingers still on the trackpad and shift their weight ever so slightly. And no - it's not my settings or setup, as all the other DAWs (Bitwig, Live, S1, Reason) work perfectly & predictably in this regard. Then it's all those endless, multiple-level menus, settings, preferenes everywhere. Further it's the overwhelming feeling that everything is kinda bolted-on onto an old, database-like framework, like it's very shaky and on the verge of breaking down (and it did few times, which never happened in other DAWs). And lastly I was shocked to find out how rudimentary, unfinished and frankly arrogant their "support" for high-DPI is: it's either 100% or 200% and if a plugin isn't high-DPI aware (most still isn't) then "f**k you!", use a magnifying lens. That was simply unusable on Surface Pro and is still barely accetable on a 1080p laptop.

So yeah. I tried most of the DAWs and in many cases - Reaper, FL, Waveform - I'd just shrug and go "yeah, it's just not for me" and be completely, reasonably neutral about it.

But I really wanted to like Cubase, because I appreciate its depth, power & flexibility. But every time I try it it's infuriating.

So I'm sorry for the "PoS", but it's the only DAW that I had such irrational reaction with

Laptop trackpad gestures ? The thought of using a laptop and trackpad gestures would drive me nuts. No wonder you gave up on it.

Did you never think about buying a desktop with a mouse ? Or is that not possible in your situation ?

The whole point of Cubase going back eons was to learn all the keyboard shortcuts. I have a Nektar Panorama P6 which is optimised for Cubase and its currently propping up the wall as I find using keyboard shortcuts much easier.

[antic604]

Did you never think about buying a desktop with a mouse ? Or is that not possible in your situation?

Not possible, at least not until my kids are out of house and I'll finally have some space for a proper "studio". For now I just take a laptop (+ sometimes a controller) out of the closet if I get some time deep into the night to work on music...

I obviously could use mouse or keyboard shortcuts (for scrolling/zooming), but I DON'T HAVE TO with all the other DAWs and most software in general, so I really got used to trackpad and mouse feels weird every time I try.

[dellboy]

Not possible, at least not until my kids are out of house and I'll finally have some space for a proper "studio". For now I just take a laptop (+ sometimes a controller) out of the closet if I get some time deep into the night to work on music...

Ah, I feel for you. I have my own room just for music with an 88 key and 61 key controller allways available. If I had to use just a laptop and my main type of composing was synth based then Bitwig might well be the best option. Like I said, what DAW we use depends on the type of music we are into and our personal circumstances.

For instance, if I had just been given the opportunity to score a movie would I have a lightbulb moment and think, Ah ! Bitwig ! ?

More than likely I am going to reach for Logic, Cubase, or Protools. Bitwig would be bottom of a film composers considerations.

If I am into Jazz would I think Ah! Bitwig ! ? or even modern POP ?

Bitwig is carving out a niche for itself as an EDM - DJ tool and not for serious professional work.

[tapper mike]

I liked Live when I used it... then I bought a Linnstrument and needed a DAW that supported MPE. I'm glad I didn't wait cause with all those FREE updates, Live still doesn't support MPE or even record PolyAT.

Same here.
The Linnstrument spoils it's owners, It's very hard to go back to standardized midi controllers once you get to using one.

[rod_zero]

How many years of support Live 9 users got? how many a bitwig user gets?

Live was launched on 2013, catalina was the first OS to not be supported, so 6 years of support. Compared to 1 year of Bitwig updates.

Who is more screwed now?

I'm talking about the principle, not specific versions. That was just an example that - in general - previous versions of software don't get new updates once new version is released. I'm not aware of any update to 9.x past Feb 2018 when Live 10 was released.

Which is not true for Live, they have released 1-2 updates for the previous versions once the new one is out, mainly maintenance update to keep up with OS.

Live 9.7.7 was released august 2018.

Live 8.4.2 was released February 2014, a whole year after 9.