One upon a time there was this lovely little VST/AUs called Wormhole2 that allowed you to transmit MIDI and Audio between DAWs over the network. It did not rely upon any special protocols, such as rewire, but worked as a VST instrument on one end, and an effect on the other, allowing it to work with any DAW. It was commonly used to run Windows plugins on Mac with the help of a VM or Wine running VSTHost. It has long been abandonware, and in its current state is 32-bit only.
Is there any alternative that is both in active development, and in both 32 and 64-bit?
Alternative to plasq Wormhole2
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- KVRAF
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- 6780 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
Apple's own IAC Bus for MIDI (by far easiest)
and for audio https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/
someone on reddit posted a free routing alternative a while back but i cant seem to find it.
and for audio https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/
someone on reddit posted a free routing alternative a while back but i cant seem to find it.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Please re-read my question. I am not asking about routing between two Mac DAWs running on the same OS. I want to route MIDI and audio between a Windows VST and a Mac DAW. Specifically, I want to use 32-bit windows-only VSTs in a 64-bit Mac DAW. That means running the Windows VST in a Windows VM or via WINE, and somehow passing MIDI and Audio between them, at low latency.Ploki wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:48 pm Apple's own IAC Bus for MIDI (by far easiest)
and for audio https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/
someone on reddit posted a free routing alternative a while back but i cant seem to find it.
IAC does not work on Windows (unless there is some 3rd party solution I'm not aware of).
RogueAmoeba Loopback (I regularly use Audio Hijack, Loopback, and SoundSource already) can work with Wine or a VM, but in that configuration it is high latency, making it nearly unusable.
A low-latency solution that works with VSTHost would pretty much need to be a VST plugin itself, and implement its own network protocol for passing audio and MIDI at low latencies.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- 6780 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
Oof my bad. I stopped at the first three sentences.
from the top of my head the easiest (but most expensive) solution is VEP https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro
from the top of my head the easiest (but most expensive) solution is VEP https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Oof indeed. €299 to do what I want.Ploki wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:56 pm from the top of my head the easiest (but most expensive) solution is VEP https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro
But this gives you a whole lot more. Even parameter automation works, over the network. Pretty cool. Plus it comes with Epic Orchestra 2.0.
Thanks!
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
€199 for the first host, €99 for each additional host. To do what I want requires 2 hosts.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Oh. Looks like I'm wrong about that. From their FAQ:
So that means that only the Windows host needs a license.You will NOT need a ViennaKey on your master computer if you don’t plan to use the VE Pro Server on the master computer. The VE Pro plug-in that connects from your sequencer to the available servers in your network does not need a license to run.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Wow. Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 is amazing. It's better than any bridge I have tried, particularly because everything works. Even all plugin automation, audio inputs, side-chaining, latency compensation, etc. And the latency over the LAN is incredibly low.
I'm running the server in a Parallels VM (with plenty of RAM and cores), and my eLicenser dongle passes through and works just fine to authorize VEP. Everything I have thrown at it works great. This is excellent because I can finally use all those free windows-only plugins in any Mac DAW without compromise.
This is a great workaround for Catalina to run 32-bit Mac-only plugins, since I can also run a Mojave VM and use VEP there.
I'm running the server in a Parallels VM (with plenty of RAM and cores), and my eLicenser dongle passes through and works just fine to authorize VEP. Everything I have thrown at it works great. This is excellent because I can finally use all those free windows-only plugins in any Mac DAW without compromise.
This is a great workaround for Catalina to run 32-bit Mac-only plugins, since I can also run a Mojave VM and use VEP there.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 6 Oct, 2020
AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
Have you looked at NetVSTHost?http://netvst.org/wiki/doku.php?id=more ... netvsthost (http://netvst.org/wiki/doku.php?id=more_about_netvsthost)
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- KVRian
- 676 posts since 3 May, 2004
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- KVRist
- 136 posts since 4 Nov, 2013 from Germany
I tried wormhole which is really nice , old software but works somehow with jbridge. But i tried vienna ensemble pro yesterday (now the demo works without dongle btw.) and this host is really good, very convincing. however the price is too much actually, only the host i need not the epic orchestra. I dont think they sell without that orchestra otherwise i would buy it at once.
Check out my music site: https://www.reverbnation.com/sonicrevelations
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- KVRAF
- 1991 posts since 12 Mar, 2004
Supports Linux too now, this developer is dropping updates like the world is ending, its amazing for free.
Duh
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
You're apparently clear on this, but for utmost clarity for all: if you wanted to run an instance of VE Pro *Server* on your 'master' machine (the m.o. 'as local host'), in your case the Mac and one on your 'slave', you'd need two licenses. Connecting to the plugin does not run an instance of the Server so the single basic license suffices. (It used to come with three but this was a higher price pt than today's, and most people in the early days were using server farms like that.)teilo wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:33 pmOh. Looks like I'm wrong about that. From their FAQ:
So that means that only the Windows host needs a license.You will NOT need a ViennaKey on your master computer if you don’t plan to use the VE Pro Server on the master computer. The VE Pro plug-in that connects from your sequencer to the available servers in your network does not need a license to run.
Much of the conjecture regarding 'alternative to VE Pro' misses a lot. An application that connects a DAW to a subhost via LAN does the one thing the same, but VE Pro is a full-on mixer, with automation mapping that places all the automation in an instance in the one list in the DAW host. And since VEP 7 came out, the exposed names are no longer 'Parameter 1' etc, they read as the actual parameter. So if I save say a BFD3 Automap with names of slots (eg., 'Sabian18edge'; or any of it, ModLevel in your reverb) I want to see just so, it's there in the Cubase list as such).
So I do all my mixing with that automation map. Game-changer.
Also very good with outputs of instrument plugins, mono outs and such. Kontakt has its own ordering which isn't exactly intuitive...
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- KVRer
- 11 posts since 15 Aug, 2020
Thanks for this explanation. The licensing scheme isn't super clear on their site. I'm about to try the demo as an alternative to AG, which is great but not quite there yet in terms of stability.jancivil wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:46 pmYou're apparently clear on this, but for utmost clarity for all: if you wanted to run an instance of VE Pro *Server* on your 'master' machine (the m.o. 'as local host'), in your case the Mac and one on your 'slave', you'd need two licenses. Connecting to the plugin does not run an instance of the Server so the single basic license suffices. (It used to come with three but this was a higher price pt than today's, and most people in the early days were using server farms like that.)teilo wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:33 pmOh. Looks like I'm wrong about that. From their FAQ:
So that means that only the Windows host needs a license.You will NOT need a ViennaKey on your master computer if you don’t plan to use the VE Pro Server on the master computer. The VE Pro plug-in that connects from your sequencer to the available servers in your network does not need a license to run.
Much of the conjecture regarding 'alternative to VE Pro' misses a lot. An application that connects a DAW to a subhost via LAN does the one thing the same, but VE Pro is a full-on mixer, with automation mapping that places all the automation in an instance in the one list in the DAW host. And since VEP 7 came out, the exposed names are no longer 'Parameter 1' etc, they read as the actual parameter. So if I save say a BFD3 Automap with names of slots (eg., 'Sabian18edge'; or any of it, ModLevel in your reverb) I want to see just so, it's there in the Cubase list as such).
So I do all my mixing with that automation map. Game-changer.
Also very good with outputs of instrument plugins, mono outs and such. Kontakt has its own ordering which isn't exactly intuitive...