Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
bassg
KVRist
57 posts since 23 May, 2014 from Czech republic

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 am

I could also recommend Atlas - while maybe not as full-featured as XO (it has no sequencer yet, but it should be coming in some of the future updates) it certainly has a great potential and it's a lot of fun to use, too

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7885 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:50 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:47 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:41 am

And where is the sample map in stacker? Lots of things stack samples. Isn't the whole point the sample map?
it's been a while since i tried it, not sure if its able to do that, but i guess you could automate layer volume via mod matrix.
I meant the "Space", that sample map, with all the dots, you know? The thing that makes XO special for finding samples.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Ploki
KVRAF
1774 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:57 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:50 am

I meant the "Space", that sample map, with all the dots, you know? The thing that makes XO special for finding samples.
oopsy.
yeah, the way i hoped to use XLN was just use the sample map and XLN XO as a standalone and use an external sampler that supports drag&drop from the sample map. i really don't click with its workflow for sampling, its all too messy for me.
and for the sample map, its just too expensive.
i also dont think it support key-follow (haven't found it but really didn't look that much) and i really like my kicks tuned.

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:41 am

when i was eyeing XLN XO, i just ended up with ADSR's free Sample Manager instead, since XO appeared too clunky.
It's the opposite of clunky. The pages are pretty well laid out, and the actual processes are done quickly and efficiently. Imagine having a sequence that you like, but you'd like to hear how it might sound with a different kit or two. Now imagine having 16 unique kits automatically ready to go with just a click, instantly auditioning. Don't like any of those kits? Click your mouse one more time and get a whole raft of new kits. Effortlessly and endlessly.
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7885 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:42 am

BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:41 am

when i was eyeing XLN XO, i just ended up with ADSR's free Sample Manager instead, since XO appeared too clunky.
It's the opposite of clunky. The pages are pretty well laid out, and the actual processes are done quickly and efficiently. Imagine having a sequence that you like, but you'd like to hear how it might sound with a different kit or two. Now imagine having 16 unique kits automatically ready to go with just a click, instantly auditioning. Don't like any of those kits? Click your mouse one more time and get a whole raft of new kits. Effortlessly and endlessly.
That wasn't my quote. ;)
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Ploki
KVRAF
1774 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:44 am

no but it was mine :)
BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:41 am

when i was eyeing XLN XO, i just ended up with ADSR's free Sample Manager instead, since XO appeared too clunky.
It's the opposite of clunky. The pages are pretty well laid out, and the actual processes are done quickly and efficiently. Imagine having a sequence that you like, but you'd like to hear how it might sound with a different kit or two. Now imagine having 16 unique kits automatically ready to go with just a click, instantly auditioning. Don't like any of those kits? Click your mouse one more time and get a whole raft of new kits. Effortlessly and endlessly.
Yeah I should've clarified it's more of a personal workflow. It's well laid out and everything, it just has too much of everything for my taste.

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:50 am

Apologies to both of you for the misatribution.

Hey, if it is not your workflow, it's obviously not for you. But for me, at least, it solves a few problems and fosters creativity. YMMV.
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

Ploki
KVRAF
1774 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:52 am

I only know what i learned from videos tho, i've been holding out for demo because of the time limit :)

yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:47 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:28 am
Man I hate time limited demos. Installed it at some point and didn't get around to using it properly. Opened it up the other day to give it a good run through while the sale was on and oops, time expired. That's it forever. How do companies not see that this type of demo can hurt sales? Sorry to be a downer on the fun.
Contact XLN support to extend/reissue your trial period. While I love fully-functional infinite trial periods (e.g., REAPER) that is very rare.
In particular wondering if the actual sample arrangement is better than Atlas. [...] I also have Sononym, which is a great sample finder for one shots and loops. And that's the main thing I would use, as opposed to creating full beats. I think. But maybe the ability to try samples in context of a beat would be more useful. I just like to Maschine or Bitwi Drum Machine for beat making. Anyone know if it's possible to drag all samples at once to multiple pads of Maschine?
XO destroys Atlas on both ends of sample organizing. The categorization and similarity matching is superior with automatic duplicate elimination. I can see Atlas possibly catching up in this department but XO is already so refined. Part of that is due to how you can navigate the map. XO's is pleasurable whereas Atlas' is drudgery.

In XO, click on anywhere to start an audition trail where one-shots play instantly. Liked a sample a couple steps back? There's a drawn path and a history list. You don't have to search for similar samples, the similarity bar is constantly updating on the bottom, use arrow keys with your non-mouse hand to audition. There's a shortlist on the side to pin candidates without committing them to a drum machine slot. It's these thoughtful elements throughout the entire product that makes Atlas look amateur in comparison.

I was using Sononym partially for drum sample mining duties but XO is laser-focused and fast. Best general sample search tool though. Between XO, Sononym, and Resonic Pro my sample organizing needs are covered. It's killed my GAS for any other tools.

Yes, you can drag and drop samples from XO including the entire kit. Go to the export page, drag individual hits or full kits, raw, processed or as stems to wherever. I don't have Maschine but I can drop a kit into Battery and Geist 2 and it automatically lays the samples out sequentially in cells/pads. If you want a single raw sample, you can also ctrl/cmd-click and drag from the Space map.

As pleasurable as the processing and beat creation is in XO, I'll often use it just for sample finding since I usually layer samples. I don't expect XO to handle that as it would only complicate the workflow. It's really tuned toward fast beat creation and if you're finicky like me then you wouldn't mind a simple drag and drop.

And yes, being able to audition the kit creation in context is fantastic. By the time I've constructed the kit and ready to bring it to Battery I already know what layering and sculpting I want to do, and I have a MIDI item to work with.

yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:00 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:57 am
i also dont think it support key-follow (haven't found it but really didn't look that much) and i really like my kicks tuned.
No, XO doesn't have keyfollow since the note mapping is sequential from MIDI Note 36. Check out FAW SubLab, it's my current favorite tool for tuned kicks. Bonus: you can drag and drop a sample from XO into SubLab's sample slot.

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:10 am

yellowmix wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:47 am

Yes, you can drag and drop samples from XO including the entire kit. Go to the export page, drag individual hits or full kits, raw, processed or as stems to wherever. I don't have Maschine but I can drop a kit into Battery and Geist 2 and it automatically lays the samples out sequentially in cells/pads. If you want a single raw sample, you can also ctrl/cmd-click and drag from the Space map.
So you can save the full processed kits to Battery 4 and Geist 2? And the layout is preserved? That's huge. So that's how I'll save my kits. Can't wait to try this. Thank you!

Functionality would still be best preserved by allowing kit-saving within XO, but for now I'll take what I can get.

Cheers
-B
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7885 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:20 am

yellowmix wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:47 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:28 am
Man I hate time limited demos. Installed it at some point and didn't get around to using it properly. Opened it up the other day to give it a good run through while the sale was on and oops, time expired. That's it forever. How do companies not see that this type of demo can hurt sales? Sorry to be a downer on the fun.
Contact XLN support to extend/reissue your trial period. While I love fully-functional infinite trial periods (e.g., REAPER) that is very rare.
In particular wondering if the actual sample arrangement is better than Atlas. [...] I also have Sononym, which is a great sample finder for one shots and loops. And that's the main thing I would use, as opposed to creating full beats. I think. But maybe the ability to try samples in context of a beat would be more useful. I just like to Maschine or Bitwi Drum Machine for beat making. Anyone know if it's possible to drag all samples at once to multiple pads of Maschine?
XO destroys Atlas on both ends of sample organizing. The categorization and similarity matching is superior with automatic duplicate elimination. I can see Atlas possibly catching up in this department but XO is already so refined. Part of that is due to how you can navigate the map. XO's is pleasurable whereas Atlas' is drudgery.

In XO, click on anywhere to start an audition trail where one-shots play instantly. Liked a sample a couple steps back? There's a drawn path and a history list. You don't have to search for similar samples, the similarity bar is constantly updating on the bottom, use arrow keys with your non-mouse hand to audition. There's a shortlist on the side to pin candidates without committing them to a drum machine slot. It's these thoughtful elements throughout the entire product that makes Atlas look amateur in comparison.

I was using Sononym partially for drum sample mining duties but XO is laser-focused and fast. Best general sample search tool though. Between XO, Sononym, and Resonic Pro my sample organizing needs are covered. It's killed my GAS for any other tools.

Yes, you can drag and drop samples from XO including the entire kit. Go to the export page, drag individual hits or full kits, raw, processed or as stems to wherever. I don't have Maschine but I can drop a kit into Battery and Geist 2 and it automatically lays the samples out sequentially in cells/pads. If you want a single raw sample, you can also ctrl/cmd-click and drag from the Space map.

As pleasurable as the processing and beat creation is in XO, I'll often use it just for sample finding since I usually layer samples. I don't expect XO to handle that as it would only complicate the workflow. It's really tuned toward fast beat creation and if you're finicky like me then you wouldn't mind a simple drag and drop.

And yes, being able to audition the kit creation in context is fantastic. By the time I've constructed the kit and ready to bring it to Battery I already know what layering and sculpting I want to do, and I have a MIDI item to work with.
Thanks! But can you change the midi note that trigger the XO hits? For example if you wanted all 8 hits to be triggered by the same midi note? Also, can you make XO hits respond to only certain velocity ranges?
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Ploki
KVRAF
1774 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:39 am

yellowmix wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:00 am

No, XO doesn't have keyfollow since the note mapping is sequential from MIDI Note 36. Check out FAW SubLab, it's my current favorite tool for tuned kicks. Bonus: you can drag and drop a sample from XO into SubLab's sample slot.
yeah, i have sublab. Also punchbox. :) both key follow.

Which means i can't do all my drums in one thing, and if i need to have more things anyway i dont want one to be so packed with feature i wont use

yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:45 am

BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:10 am
So you can save the full processed kits to Battery 4 and Geist 2? And the layout is preserved? That's huge. So that's how I'll save my kits. Can't wait to try this. Thank you!

Functionality would still be best preserved by allowing kit-saving within XO, but for now I'll take what I can get.
Yeah, just make sure to drop it into the first top-left cell in Battery and the first bottom-left cell in Geist 2. XO starts on MIDI Note 36 which corresponds to those cells/pads. You may need to change the MIDI Channel since XO defaults to 2 and the first Geist engine expects it on 1. Or simply drag it into engine 2. Battery doesn't care ("All Channels" by default).

You'll want to save the kit AND samples once you're in the destination drum machine since the drag and drop samples are saved in a temporary folder (it doesn't give you the original location even for raw samples due to how drag and drop works, at least on Windows). It's still best to save a kit in XO since the samples stay where they are.

Personally I find the beat saved with the kit is there to show what it sounds like since beat editing is so nice. If I really like a pattern then I can save the MIDI item to my MIDI library. I prepend the name with XO_ so I know what drum note name map to load in the future. This is really good for XO's groove generation and you can apply it to other MIDI-triggered drum machines, try it on acoustic kits like Addictive Drums!

Anyway, in Geist 2 you must enable Tools > Save Samples with Presets, then save the kit/engine/whatever. In Battery choose "Patch + Samples" or "Monolith" when saving the kit. I like saving this into the current project's folder.

yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:15 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:20 am
Thanks! But can you change the midi note that trigger the XO hits? For example if you wanted all 8 hits to be triggered by the same midi note? Also, can you make XO hits respond to only certain velocity ranges?
No, the MIDI note map is static. I wouldn't mind if it could conform to GM, AD, and others. Addictive Drums does, but that requires another page to add to the UI. Maybe in the hamburger menu.

The drum machine is velocity sensitive (0-100%, over 100% low velocities moves the sample start ahead to skip the transient) but there are no velocity layers or sample layers like you'd find in MPC/Maschine/Battery. What is there works very well in many cases. If the processing options aren't sufficient for my project needs then it's not a big deal to drag the kit into Battery or whatever for me. I'm used to moving kits from Battery to Geist when I need greater levels of power at the cost of complexity.

But yes, if the MIDI note map could be configured, that would allow slots to act as sample layers. So it's worth submitting a feature request. They've been receptive when I contact them.

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