Waves' new/old subscription model

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:12 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:09 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:06 am
Read before you buy?

Buyers seem to think they can impulse buy something then read the policies, then complain about the policies they didn't read.

Seriously, every company has policies, read them, if you agree with them then purchase, if you don't agree with them then don't purchase. It's really that simple.
i did and i didn't buy tho.

the sale thing however is not only morally but also legally questionable - there's really no argument there.
I remember a time when people used to complain about things being too expensive...

Now people complain about saving money, because something is always on sale...

What's next, war over free plugins... :lol:
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

Ploki
KVRAF
1788 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:15 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:12 am
I remember a time when people used to complain about things being too expensive...

Now people complain about saving money, because something is always on sale...

What's next, war over free plugins... :lol:
Something being too expensive vs something having false value assigned to it to appear affordable are two different things tho.
If something is always on sale, that's its actual value, there is no sale.
i'm not actually saving money, i'm just buying cheap stuff.

midi_transmission
KVRist
418 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:44 am

what ploki said

Waves (always on sale) prices would be even great when they would use them as the real retail price. Even wup would be fine then.

What's crazy about wup is that the retail prices are used to calculate wup.

It just feels shady this way. I would buy a lot of waves stuff even feel fine about wup without this sale/retain price game.

jochicago
KVRian
812 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:23 am

Waves prices keep going down. Now the new low is $13. They run these promos several times per year that a good chunk of their plugins (maybe even most) are 2 for 1 at $30. Plus with the coupon code from the plugin outlets you end up paying something like $26 for 2 plugins. And it's not just their 20+ year old plugins. Just a few weeks back you could buy both the Scheps Omni and the CLA Mixhub, their 2 flagship channel trips for $40 together, so $20 each. (Which BTW is a phenomenal deal at least for these plugins).

So that's the range for Waves plugins. Even the most recent released plugins are like $70. Most plugins can be had just about any month at like $45 consistently. A good deal of their plugins can be had for $30. And a few times per year you can get them as low as $13. If you buy a bundle during the bundle sales, you could be paying $2 per plugin or less.

No Waves plugin is ever $200+. That's a made up price they use to scam people when it comes to paying WUP. "I see you got CLA Mixhub which is $200 regular, so your yearly renewal will be 15% of the value of the plugin, so you owe us $30."

In many cases it's literally cheaper to just buy the plugin again during the next promo. This is how lots of people have been WUP-ing their bundles, they just buy them again. Nice little racket, making consumers buy their own plugins again over and over, the mob would be proud.

"But wait! Why deal with our BS pricing and WUP. Now you can just pay us whatever we say every month for the rest of your life. See, no more headaches. Want 40 nearly outdated plugins from around 2002? That will be $120/year forever, please."

Jade_one
KVRer
6 posts since 17 Feb, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:41 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:45 pm
The same crowd interested in Slate, would also be interested in these much cheaper bundles.
Idk i've definitely thought about using slate's subscription but waves subscription seems scammy. Slate you get everything, as long as you are subscribed. Waves is like, 10 plugins that are old and don't get updates and also most of their plugins go onsale for 10-30 bucks periodically. Just feels different to me lol

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:08 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:15 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:12 am
I remember a time when people used to complain about things being too expensive...

Now people complain about saving money, because something is always on sale...

What's next, war over free plugins... :lol:
Something being too expensive vs something having false value assigned to it to appear affordable are two different things tho.
If something is always on sale, that's its actual value, there is no sale.
i'm not actually saving money, i'm just buying cheap stuff.
Then pass on buying/renting and move onto a company that sells overpriced plugins that don't go on sale?

Or even better, ones that don't lose their value over time, like in a subscription model?

I'm sure you can find something to complain about with every plugin company, you just choose this one for some reason. As if they've wronged you... :lol:

Get over it, life is too short.
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

Ploki
KVRAF
1788 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:21 am

No, i really only complain about companies that have something to complain about. Waves is not the only one

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:11 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:21 am
No, i really only complain about companies that have something to complain about. Waves is not the only one
I think the point is more about what to complain about, more then if you complain, that's a given.
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3993 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:01 pm

Do you like-want-need their plugins and is the price they ask for reasonable? That's the only questions important.
If they find people who pay more than you, that is your benefit! Better do not complain, as it would raise the price you would have to pay... Just be proud that you are so smart to be able to figure their marketing tricks...

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:56 am

Every company uses marketing tricks, just look at Black Friday as an example...

Read a company's policies before making purchases and it will save you years of bad review giving...
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

robotmonkey
KVRAF
2416 posts since 20 Jun, 2012

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am

I must say that their subscription model absolutely does not make any sense at all.
No signature here!

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 am

robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am
I must say that their subscription model absolutely does not make any sense at all.
I'm not sure if you thought about it through completely, but what about teaching institutions that educate students using Protools and Waves plugins?

Wouldn't a year or two of subscription work great during their schooling process? Seems like a smart move if budget is a concerned and a short term is in mind.

It could also be a great way to demo and evaluate before purchasing, or if an engineer doesn't have that specific plugin can simply rent it for a short time to finish a project.

But, if one of these many situations arise and it doesn't fit your life, then it's okay to pass...
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

robotmonkey
KVRAF
2416 posts since 20 Jun, 2012

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:52 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 am
robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am
I must say that their subscription model absolutely does not make any sense at all.
I'm not sure if you thought about it through completely, but what about teaching institutions that educate students using Protools and Waves plugins?

Wouldn't a year or two of subscription work great during their schooling process? Seems like a smart move if budget is a concerned and a short term is in mind.

It could also be a great way to demo and evaluate before purchasing, or if an engineer doesn't have that specific plugin can simply rent it for a short time to finish a project.

But, if one of these many situations arise and it doesn't fit your life, then it's okay to pass...
Considering their bundle pricing, content and constant sales it literally just does not make any sense. You would be more better off buying anything outright and then paying the WUP occasionally once after every couple years.
No signature here!

burnt circuit
Banned
142 posts since 15 Jan, 2020

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:53 am

robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:52 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 am
robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am
I must say that their subscription model absolutely does not make any sense at all.
I'm not sure if you thought about it through completely, but what about teaching institutions that educate students using Protools and Waves plugins?

Wouldn't a year or two of subscription work great during their schooling process? Seems like a smart move if budget is a concerned and a short term is in mind.

It could also be a great way to demo and evaluate before purchasing, or if an engineer doesn't have that specific plugin can simply rent it for a short time to finish a project.

But, if one of these many situations arise and it doesn't fit your life, then it's okay to pass...
Considering their bundle pricing, content and constant sales it literally just does not make any sense. You would be more better off buying anything outright and then paying the WUP occasionally once after every couple years.
I don't prefer the low upfront cost of a rental subscription just as much as the next person, but some people can only afford to put up small payments on their already maxed credit cards.

I can only see value in a short term agreement, the longer they rent the lower the value is to me.
It's not the quality of audio, it's the quality of production that matters.

robotmonkey
KVRAF
2416 posts since 20 Jun, 2012

Re: Waves' new/old subscription model

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:04 am

burnt circuit wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:53 am
robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:52 am
burnt circuit wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 am
robotmonkey wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:10 am
I must say that their subscription model absolutely does not make any sense at all.
I'm not sure if you thought about it through completely, but what about teaching institutions that educate students using Protools and Waves plugins?

Wouldn't a year or two of subscription work great during their schooling process? Seems like a smart move if budget is a concerned and a short term is in mind.

It could also be a great way to demo and evaluate before purchasing, or if an engineer doesn't have that specific plugin can simply rent it for a short time to finish a project.

But, if one of these many situations arise and it doesn't fit your life, then it's okay to pass...
Considering their bundle pricing, content and constant sales it literally just does not make any sense. You would be more better off buying anything outright and then paying the WUP occasionally once after every couple years.
I don't prefer the low upfront cost of a rental subscription just as much as the next person, but some people can only afford to put up small payments on their already maxed credit cards.

I can only see value in a short term agreement, the longer they rent the lower the value is to me.
The problem is that their bundles and pricing is way off when it comes to value. Waves could actually be in a very good position when it comes to subscription. There's literally no other VST developer who has such a broad range of available tools. You could do all your composing and mixing without ever using a plugin from any other vendor so their larger bundles could be good value. Currently their price is just too high and they have chosen the crap bundles for this.
No signature here!

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