VST host for live keyboards

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:16 pm

I own a Roland Fantom..
And while it has mainstage integration, mainstage just doesn’t offer what i want..
You can only have 1 instance of mainstage at a time.. i would love to assign a mainstage soundset to each of my 16 midi channels

Quite simple, i want a host that turns my mac into a soundmodule..
Has 16 channels to each of whome i can assign a layer of multiple sounds, each of them with multiple dsp effects..
And also being able to change sounds on the fly by sending a midi program change/bank changes from the keyboard to any of the channels.. much like we are used with hardware modules like the Roland integra 7.

I am not natively english
So i hope its clear what i am looking for

Any advice is welcome..

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debra1rlo
Suspended
9890 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from in Uranus, playin' lollipop

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:29 pm

Why would you need more than one instance of mainstage? You can create all sorts of multi-layer patches that you can change on the fly, map to different areas of the keyboard. This is something mainstage does very well, been using it on stage for about 7 years now.
Check out our debut CD: Gitane Demone Quartet - Past The Sun on Dark Vinyl Records (featuring Rikk Agnew & Paul Roessler)
video for Past The Sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eCmEiWoWE

gminorcoles
KVRist
38 posts since 22 Feb, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:54 pm

Gig performer is better in my opinion than mainstage

Try it out at least

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:30 am

debra1rlo wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:29 pm
Why would you need more than one instance of mainstage? You can create all sorts of multi-layer patches that you can change on the fly, map to different areas of the keyboard. This is something mainstage does very well, been using it on stage for about 7 years now.
Because the Fantom is the centerpiece of my setup..
I use it to controll my software as well as my hardware modules (integra7, gsi gemini, motif xs, novation peak, ketron sd90) it offers me 16 channels for both internal as well as external sounds...

I just want my software to work the same as my hardware modules...

Sure mainstage offers pretty much everything when used as the centerpiece of my setup..
But you can only have 1 centerpiece,...
So when using mainstage, in combination with fantom sounds, i need to midi out my mainstage back into the fantom.. mainstage is great for fixed setups... however its not that good for quickly changing sounds on the fly, everything needs to be preprogrammed.. you can only change full setups.. just try quickly changing your right hand voice from a grand piano into a honky if you feel like that live on stage... thats not an easy thing in Mainstage..

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:32 am

gminorcoles wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:54 pm
Gig performer is better in my opinion than mainstage

Try it out at least
What makes it better then mainstage for what i want to do?
It basically offers static patches,... and everything needs to be preprogrammed..

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debra1rlo
Suspended
9890 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from in Uranus, playin' lollipop

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am

Yes. Everything needs to be preprogrammed, no matter which one you use: MainStage, Gig Performer or even the Fantom. Sounds like you're just not interested in taking the time to learn the software/do the programming and just want it to magically work from your thoughts. Fine if you don't have the time, but you shouldn't be saying these options won't work when they absolutely do and are being used by gigging musicians.
Check out our debut CD: Gitane Demone Quartet - Past The Sun on Dark Vinyl Records (featuring Rikk Agnew & Paul Roessler)
video for Past The Sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eCmEiWoWE

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moss
KVRAF
1956 posts since 13 May, 2004

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:52 am

Toets wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:16 pm
I own a Roland Fantom..
And while it has mainstage integration, mainstage just doesn’t offer what i want..
You can only have 1 instance of mainstage at a time.. i would love to assign a mainstage soundset to each of my 16 midi channels
You could take a look at Bitwig Studio. It comes with a device called "Instrument Selector". In this device you can put as much layers (midi fx + sounds + fx in any combination) as you want. Only one layer is active at the time (and only that layer takes up CPU resources). Also if you switch to another layer you can still hold the notes of the previous layer!
So for your scenario, you could create 16 tracks, each containing an instrument selector. There are also devices to create splits and for layering sounds.

rasmusklump
KVRian
976 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Germany

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:48 am

I use Live Professor for this.
You can easily build chains, can call up midi modifiers with keys from the keyboard etc.

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:47 am

debra1rlo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am
Yes. Everything needs to be preprogrammed, no matter which one you use: MainStage, Gig Performer or even the Fantom. Sounds like you're just not interested in taking the time to learn the software/do the programming and just want it to magically work from your thoughts. Fine if you don't have the time, but you shouldn't be saying these options won't work when they absolutely do and are being used by gigging musicians.
Thats a nice conclusion..
Blaming me instead of giving an answer to the question..

Do you own a fantom too?
Or is it an assumption that on fantom you need to preprogram everything?

On the fantom i can change my rhodes sound into a wurlitzer in litteraly 2 secconds..
Or add an extra layer of strings to a piano sounds in a seccond..
Change the splitpoint in a second..
All real time, nothing preprogrammed..
This is what makes hardware workstations still more suited for jam sessions and such, where you want to be creative real time..

This has nothing to do with putting in a lot of labour..
But with real time freedom..
Sorry you don’t seem to understand it, might be my bad English..

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:52 am

moss wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:52 am
Toets wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:16 pm
I own a Roland Fantom..
And while it has mainstage integration, mainstage just doesn’t offer what i want..
You can only have 1 instance of mainstage at a time.. i would love to assign a mainstage soundset to each of my 16 midi channels
You could take a look at Bitwig Studio. It comes with a device called "Instrument Selector". In this device you can put as much layers (midi fx + sounds + fx in any combination) as you want. Only one layer is active at the time (and only that layer takes up CPU resources). Also if you switch to another layer you can still hold the notes of the previous layer!
So for your scenario, you could create 16 tracks, each containing an instrument selector. There are also devices to create splits and for layering sounds.
Bitwig is very suited for this..
But you can’t switch sounds in bitwig based on a midi program/bank change..
For the rest its an awesome tool..

So i agree i could preprepare 16 tracks..
But that would kind of limit me.. to 16 patches...

Comming from my midi point of view and workstation background
There are still a lot of things, i would miss on a full software setup..

Maybe one day, someone will build a specific daw for real time live playing and addapting..

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:00 am

rasmusklump wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:48 am
I use Live Professor for this.
You can easily build chains, can call up midi modifiers with keys from the keyboard etc.
Interesting program..
Didn’t know it yet..

Trying to read/youtube up on it..
Thank you for the tip..

DarkStar
KVRAF
9457 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:27 am

Have a look at PluginGuru's Unify
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

User avatar
moss
KVRAF
1956 posts since 13 May, 2004

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:46 am

Toets wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:52 am
Bitwig is very suited for this..
But you can’t switch sounds in bitwig based on a midi program/bank change..
The Instrument Selector can only be mapped to CC but you can e.g. use my "Generic Flexi" extension to map PC to CC or a user parameter.
Toets wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:52 am
So i agree i could preprepare 16 tracks..
But that would kind of limit me.. to 16 patches...
I thought that this is what you were after? Maybe you misunderstood me: On each track you can have as many sounds as you want. E.g. Track 1 could contain 100 Pianos, Track 2 100 Organs, Track 3 100 Pads, etc.
It is on my TODO list for Bitwig tutorial videos, maybe I should move it up in priority :-)

Toets
KVRist
65 posts since 1 May, 2019

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:05 pm

moss wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:46 am
Toets wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:52 am
Bitwig is very suited for this..
But you can’t switch sounds in bitwig based on a midi program/bank change..
The Instrument Selector can only be mapped to CC but you can e.g. use my "Generic Flexi" extension to map PC to CC or a user parameter.
Toets wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:52 am
So i agree i could preprepare 16 tracks..
But that would kind of limit me.. to 16 patches...
I thought that this is what you were after? Maybe you misunderstood me: On each track you can have as many sounds as you want. E.g. Track 1 could contain 100 Pianos, Track 2 100 Organs, Track 3 100 Pads, etc.
It is on my TODO list for Bitwig tutorial videos, maybe I should move it up in priority :-)
That would be great...
Because i can’t create what you just explained..
I video tutorial might shed some light on this..

So basically your tooling allows me to convert my pc and lsb and msb bank changes into a cc vallues that can be used to select sounds... thats brilliant

User avatar
debra1rlo
Suspended
9890 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from in Uranus, playin' lollipop

Re: VST host for live keyboards

Post Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:32 pm

Toets wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:47 am
debra1rlo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am
Yes. Everything needs to be preprogrammed, no matter which one you use: MainStage, Gig Performer or even the Fantom. Sounds like you're just not interested in taking the time to learn the software/do the programming and just want it to magically work from your thoughts. Fine if you don't have the time, but you shouldn't be saying these options won't work when they absolutely do and are being used by gigging musicians.
Thats a nice conclusion..
Blaming me instead of giving an answer to the question..

Do you own a fantom too?
Or is it an assumption that on fantom you need to preprogram everything?

On the fantom i can change my rhodes sound into a wurlitzer in litteraly 2 secconds..
Or add an extra layer of strings to a piano sounds in a seccond..
Change the splitpoint in a second..
All real time, nothing preprogrammed..
This is what makes hardware workstations still more suited for jam sessions and such, where you want to be creative real time..

This has nothing to do with putting in a lot of labour..
But with real time freedom..
Sorry you don’t seem to understand it, might be my bad English..
This post is the first post where you mentioned flipping randomly thru sounds for a JAM SESSION. It also sounds like the Fantom already does what you want for this purpose. Sure I misunderstood, not surprising since you did not provide all the information you were considering.

MainStage is not really for that purpose, it's more geared toward creating patches for different songs and being able to switch quickly between these preprogrammed customized presets on the fly during a performance. Of course, I've used Main Stage in the studio, and while it's not as quick to use as a Fantom or workstation like you described above, I've been able to use it to come up with sounds quick enough to keep the session rolling and save those patches for future live use. But I do agree, you couldn't really use it to quick flip thru sounds the same way as a workstation. That need has never come up often enough for me for it to be a problem, but we all have different needs.
Check out our debut CD: Gitane Demone Quartet - Past The Sun on Dark Vinyl Records (featuring Rikk Agnew & Paul Roessler)
video for Past The Sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eCmEiWoWE

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