Reason 11 announced!!!

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Psuper
KVRist
402 posts since 3 May, 2018

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm

I couldn't care less about hi-res gui, just enlarging/scaling existing assets in the rack plug would be good.
Cubase has won the Prize! And Reason Rack is is invited to the party again! :party:
...I now need nothing but more hours in a day.

chk071
KVRAF
23276 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:30 pm

bmanic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:20 pm
chk071 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:50 am
EnochLight wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:28 am
Just confirmed by the Product Manager that high-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics are coming to Reason:

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... 61#p488361

:o :o :o
Shame about the hostility company reps seen to get on every internet forum. :(

As if the hi-Res GUI would be a small update they could just implement tomorrow.
The hostility comes from the UI elements being so small and completely stuck in decades past when reason was mainly optimized for 1024x768 resolution (!!). People have been asking for larger user interface elements literally for over a decade.

It's not like they haven't had time to re-do the graphics. They just haven't cared.
I think you're really underestimating the effort needed for such a task, and overestimating the manpower of companies like Propellerhead. Especially for a software like Reason, which is basically just a big rack of hardware, with lots and lots and lots of control elements everywhere.

It also needs a complete re-thinking of what the GUI should be like, I imagine.

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antic604
KVRAF
4145 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:33 pm

Psuper wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm
I couldn't care less about hi-res gui, just enlarging/scaling existing assets in the rack plug would be good.
Considering Reason Rack Plugin uses the same native & RE devices as Reason standalone, I think you can't have one without the other, regardless of how you feel about it ;)

Also scaling up current native Reason & RE devices without increasing their resolution will result in pixelated mess - you can't create detail where there's none. Lastly, most good DAWs (Bitwig, Live, S1 of those that I own) will allow you to resize DPI-unaware plugins to Windows' scaling factor - they'll be blurry and smeared (unless it's 200%), but usable.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Psuper
KVRist
402 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:38 pm

antic604 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:33 pm
Psuper wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm
I couldn't care less about hi-res gui, just enlarging/scaling existing assets in the rack plug would be good.
Considering Reason Rack Plugin uses the same native & RE devices as Reason standalone, I think you can't have one without the other, regardless of how you feel about it ;)

Also scaling up current native Reason & RE devices without increasing their resolution will result in pixelated mess - you can't create detail where there's none. Lastly, most good DAWs (Bitwig, Live, S1 of those that I own) will allow you to resize DPI-unaware plugins to Windows' scaling factor - they'll be blurry and smeared (unless it's 200%), but usable.
Nah they can easily set the rack to scale separately from the DAW if they wanted to (been wanting that in the past with Kontakt which I can't stand anymore). Regardless, bitmap enlarging is a non issue for me, however I value productivity over everything else.
Cubase has won the Prize! And Reason Rack is is invited to the party again! :party:
...I now need nothing but more hours in a day.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4145 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:30 pm
I think you're really underestimating the effort needed for such a task, and overestimating the manpower of companies like Propellerhead. Especially for a software like Reason, which is basically just a big rack of hardware, with lots and lots and lots of control elements everywhere.

It also needs a complete re-thinking of what the GUI should be like, I imagine.
Not quite. Since REs were introduced the format required 3rd party developers to provide high-res assets and underlying logic was resolution-agnostic, so REs were forward looking from the get-go. Up to some point devs also had to provide a textured 3d mesh for REs :)

https://youtu.be/NmjdPPCMx-c

So it's really only Reason itself & native, non-RE devices that needed rework.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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EnochLight
KVRAF
1611 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:38 pm

bmanic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:20 pm
The hostility comes from the UI elements being so small and completely stuck in decades past when reason was mainly optimized for 1024x768 resolution (!!). People have been asking for larger user interface elements literally for over a decade.

It's not like they haven't had time to re-do the graphics. They just haven't cared.
Nah, the hostility comes from people not being able to have a measured and constructive conversation without getting emotional. And to be fair, I seriously doubt it's not that they (Reason Studios/Propellerhead) haven't cared - it's because in the grand scale of things, its importance has been lower than all of the other features that have come to date. If the top feature request was "high DPI graphics and/or GPU acceleration", one can surmise that we would have seen it far sooner.
Win 10 | Reason 11 | Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland System 1 | Roland MX-1

Psuper
KVRist
402 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: High-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics coming in Reason

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm

EnochLight wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:38 pm
bmanic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:20 pm
The hostility comes from the UI elements being so small and completely stuck in decades past when reason was mainly optimized for 1024x768 resolution (!!). People have been asking for larger user interface elements literally for over a decade.

It's not like they haven't had time to re-do the graphics. They just haven't cared.
Nah, the hostility comes from people not being able to have a measured and constructive conversation without getting emotional. And to be fair, I seriously doubt it's not that they (Reason Studios/Propellerhead) haven't cared - it's because in the grand scale of things, its importance has been lower than all of the other features that have come to date. If the top feature request was "high DPI graphics and/or GPU acceleration", one can surmise that we would have seen it far sooner.
The old Props didn't really give a crap what features were most requested by the community -- I'd even go so far as to say they didn't even want to hear it. And that's not a bad thing if you are passionate and competent with your own vision which they undeniably were. New props pay more attention, and that's not a bad thing either...
Cubase has won the Prize! And Reason Rack is is invited to the party again! :party:
...I now need nothing but more hours in a day.

softska
KVRian
778 posts since 1 Sep, 2008 from US

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:35 pm

Psuper wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm
I couldn't care less about hi-res gui, just enlarging/scaling existing assets in the rack plug would be good.
This. Would be nice but doesn't really bother me. But the ever increasing height of rack extensions is another matter... I can barely see more than 2 devices at once anymore without rotating the screen 90

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4145 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:41 pm

softska wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:35 pm
Psuper wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm
I couldn't care less about hi-res gui, just enlarging/scaling existing assets in the rack plug would be good.
This. Would be nice but doesn't really bother me. But the ever increasing height of rack extensions is another matter... I can barely see more than 2 devices at once anymore without rotating the screen 90
Err... Make up your mind then. You want them bigger or not? :D
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Liero
KVRian
1050 posts since 6 Mar, 2004

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:42 pm

The problem with Propellerhead/Reason is that about 10 years ago they stopped innovating, and now they're slowly starting to add things users wished for and it's just way, way too late because the competition has blown past them. Bitwig in particular has crushed them with regard to the "modulate anything" CV cable features - it's just on a completely different level. MIDI editing has been superior in just about every other major DAW for a long time. Audio handling as well.

Also, anyone saying that upscaling their GUI is a huge effort is being mislead. They had ample opportunity years ago to make high res versions of their plugin interfaces, which for a professional graphic designer would be no more than a month's work - they just didn't think it mattered. Then they completely lost the ball in not reworking the GUI entirely before introducing RE's, and are now paying for it.

I used to love Reason, version 2.5 was a staple for me back in the day. Somewhere along the way they just lost focus. I switched during the Reason/Record debacle.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
4145 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:49 pm

Psuper wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:38 pm
Nah they can easily set the rack to scale separately from the DAW if they wanted to.
In the world where NI, Waves, Soundtoys and many, MANY others still don't have DPI-aware / scaled plugins, I don't think prioritising Reason Rack VST to be scalable would be a smart idea. Whereas making Reason itself DPI-aware will "automatically" add those features to Reason Rack VST. IMO that was the "easy" and good choice to make.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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bharris22
KVRAF
1703 posts since 3 Mar, 2010

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:30 am

I updated to 11.2 through Reason standalone, and now Ableton Live 10 hangs when I try to start the Reason Rack VST. Anyone else have this issue?

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EnochLight
KVRAF
1611 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:40 am

Liero wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:42 pm
The problem with Propellerhead/Reason is that about 10 years ago they stopped innovating, and now they're slowly starting to add things users wished for and it's just way, way too late because the competition has blown past them. Bitwig in particular has crushed them with regard to the "modulate anything" CV cable features - it's just on a completely different level. MIDI editing has been superior in just about every other major DAW for a long time. Audio handling as well.

Also, anyone saying that upscaling their GUI is a huge effort is being mislead. They had ample opportunity years ago to make high res versions of their plugin interfaces, which for a professional graphic designer would be no more than a month's work - they just didn't think it mattered. Then they completely lost the ball in not reworking the GUI entirely before introducing RE's, and are now paying for it.

I used to love Reason, version 2.5 was a staple for me back in the day. Somewhere along the way they just lost focus. I switched during the Reason/Record debacle.
Counterpoint: the things that you are provided with Reason 11 stock out of the box, instruments, effects, utilities, and even its arguably rudimentary sequencer, are far, far more of a complete package compared to Bitwig's "stock" items.

Also, how is Bitwig any more innovative? They ripped off designers from Ableton and basically made a different version of Live. I mean, that's not a bad thing, but innovative?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(*ducks while the Bitwig fans go nuts) :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 | Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland System 1 | Roland MX-1

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antic604
KVRAF
4145 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:05 am

EnochLight wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:40 am
They ripped off designers from Ableton and basically made a different version of Live. I mean, that's not a bad thing, but innovative?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That might've been the case with v1, but along the way and definitely since v2 Bitwig and Live went their separate ways. They're now not more similar than Cubase is to S1 is to Reaper, and I'd actually say they're more different than those now. And I don't think Bitwig tries to be 'innovative' for the sake of it - they rather try to implement or extend features existing elsewhere in a unique, workflow firendly manner, i.e. 80/20 rule - 80% of the full feature set, but MUCH easier and fun to use, like the modulation system, building of complex parallel instrument & FX chains, The Grid (vs. Max, VCV or Softube Modular), controlling modular hardware systems, etc. That's where their focus and (most of) innovation is.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
EnochLight
KVRAF
1611 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from your mom

Re: Reason 11 announced!!!

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:16 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:05 am
they rather try to implement or extend features existing elsewhere in a unique, workflow friendly manner, i.e. 80/20 rule - 80% of the full feature set, but MUCH easier and fun to use, like the modulation system, building of complex parallel instrument & FX chains, The Grid (vs. Max, VCV or Softube Modular), controlling modular hardware systems, etc. That's where their focus and (most of) innovation is.
I hear you. Sounds similar to how Propellerhead/Reason Studios operates, not so ironically - though Reason is just "different". And clearly developmentally glacial! :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 | Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland System 1 | Roland MX-1

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