KVR Audio

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:11 pm

Hi. I started producing with cubase 5.1 VST32. It seemed okay to me but i could never get any real work done. Then out of curiosity and and being the patch-whore that i am i tried logic so i could use ES2 at a mates place. LOVED it. Went out and bought it right away.

Slowly I started becoming addicted to logic. V5 was so exciting for me. It's lovely automation and effects, the whole streamlined workflow. Why do these Cubase folks just don?t get it, logic is much more LOGICall to use. I was happy. Or at least that?s what I though.

When apple stepped in the picture I got scared, VERY scared. I knew that the PC had had it and it would be Mac only now on. I grasped onto my V5 waiting to save up money for a Mac to get all the lovely features the new versions would bring. Sadly what I see now is that Cubase/Nuendo and Sonar have been developing quite nicely. Steinberg seem to now realise that workflow beats features every time, and I know they?ve stolen a couple of ideas here and there, but hey at least they realise when they are beaten and instead of fighting it they endorse it. Logic 7 is utter crap for me. Obviously they had time to develop 2 new HUGE instruments but not enough for PDC ? Did their users not want that or was that just a thing only I wanted.

All professional software options for Mac are now owned by Apple, yet another regime to get the hardware selling machine going on. If you f***ing idiots want ppl to buy macs make them better that their pc counterparts instead of threatening users by making software they need exclusive to your platform. Users will eventually get tired of these lame threats.

I am now going to move on to Cubase SX3 ? hell if ttoz can do it any logic user can :p. I will always love logic as much as I resent Emmaple. Yes I?m bitter and yes I?m sad for giving logic up, and sorry for borring you just had to get it out of my chest.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:19 pm

popsych wrote: Users will eventually get tired of these lame threats.

Mac users? I don't think so. They'll take it up the Gary Glitter and love it. 'Cos it's Steve.

Kraku · Post by **Kraku** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:27 pm

I hear you Popsych. I also didn't buy a Mac to continue using Logic Audio but switched to a new host instead. This switch happened only a few weeks ago when I bought Ableton Live 4. Now I'm happy with it and send some

's to EMagic.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:38 pm

popsych wrote:All professional software options for Mac are now owned by Apple, yet another regime to get the hardware selling machine going on. If you f***ing idiots want ppl to buy macs make them better that their pc counterparts instead of threatening users by making software they need exclusive to your platform. Users will eventually get tired of these lame threats.

I've never bought an app from Apple. I bought their OS, but that's the only software I've bought from them. So your argument flops WRT me. Yes I own Logic, but I've had it since V4.

PDC is high on their list, and certain sources confirm its coming. Emagic's old team has been quite busy though, and quite frankly, I'm amazed at their level of output since they've been bought out. SoundDiver, Garage Band, Soundtrack, Apple Lossless Compression, to name a few.

And another one. apple makes quality hardware. I bought a G4 733 three years ago. A few months ago, I got a second hand Apple OEM 933 processor. Upon installing it, I broke off a capacitor. To this day, my Mac runs full speed without a glitch... Kids don't try this at home

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:41 pm

nuffink wrote:
popsych wrote: Users will eventually get tired of these lame threats.
Mac users? I don't think so. They'll take it up the Gary Glitter and love it. 'Cos it's Steve.

You can't be serious.

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:02 pm

Tell me that when your trying to recover your PC from the latest round of spyware, viruses, and porno/junk/adware...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:08 pm

DHR53 quoth Tell me that when your trying to recover your PC from the latest round of spyware, viruses, and porno/junk/adware...

Never had to. All my PC's have been secure.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:18 pm

But well, whyterabbyt, you KNOW PCs pretty well.
Let's just admit that security reasons are something more important to watch for on PCs than on Macs (and I'm not here to defend any Apple policies - because they just stink).
Pretty much an obvious thing though as Windows has got to be the most common OS worldwide, including the net. So hackers/programmers chose that one to attack people - simply because they can do more harm. Also one of the reasons why meanwhile 98 is a pretty much safe OS when doing netstuff.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:25 pm

popsych wrote:Logic 7 is utter crap for me. Obviously they had time to develop 2 new HUGE instruments but not enough for PDC ? Did their users not want that or was that just a thing only I wanted.

All these host bashing threads follow a predictable pattern that you learn to recognize after reading several dozen of them. Invariably someone trashes a host by singling out the features that matter most to them and condemning the host for supporting them poorly.

What I'd really like to see here on kvr is a more focused and useful and less emotional discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of each host. They all do some things well and some things less well and it's really a matter of choosing the tool that supports the way you like to work. Something as simple as:

* live 4
pros - simple & intuitive, great for sketching ideas
cons - primitive midi features and linear sequencing is crude compared to others

* logic
pros - sophisticated midi and compositional tools, good suite of plugins
cons - complicated, mac-only, lags in other areas like pdc

* sonar
pros - easy to use, full-featured, good support and community
cons - vst wrapper is weird, automation handling is cumbersome

* cubase
pros - full-featured, cross-platform, good all-rounder
cons - crap plugins, somewhat complex, some killer bugs

Even these kinds of assertions can be pretty controversial but at least there's some home of a constructive debate on these points. Just dismissing hosts the way you have is a waste of pixels.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:30 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:But well, whyterabbyt, you KNOW PCs pretty well.
Let's just admit that security reasons are something more important to watch for on PCs than on Macs (and I'm not here to defend any Apple policies - because they just stink).

I work with computers for a living and I've got a lot of experience with windows from systems programming in C++ on up. I think I know it better than 99% of the PC users out there. I've still had the occasional virus or spyware app pop up on my PC. It's very, very easy to pick something like this up on a PC.

However, I can't really imagine choosing a DAW on this basis. Both Os X and XP are very stable operating systems. Both can be made quite secure with a little dilligence. Both support a healthy variety of hosts & instruments. We should all be thankful that this is the case. No matter which tools you choose we all benefit from real competition and choice.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:32 pm

So kuniklo - if you say Logic is "complicated", does that make it an unbiased opinion?
Seriously, I find Logic to be way easier to handle than, say, Cubase.
Yes, admittedly the first steps are harder to get through, but after that IMO it beats anything else in terms of efficiency and "easyness".
What's so complicated then?

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:34 pm

popsych wrote:
All professional software options for Mac are now owned by Apple, yet another regime to get the hardware selling machine going on. If you f***ing idiots want ppl to buy macs make them better that their pc counterparts instead of threatening users by making software they need exclusive to your platform. Users will eventually get tired of these lame threats.

This topic is flamebait.

I use Logic, and a mac, L7 has a TON of new features, and if you feel that you have to switch to SX, so be it.

Seriously, most of my friends use windows, and I rarely get into it with them about the whole Apple/ mac/ Microsoft/ PC bullshit, but online people talk major garbage about both platforms without remorse or concern for the simple fact that both have their downfalls, and it doesn't matter in the end what you use.

PDC might possibly be harder to implement in Logic than we would like to think, I'm dammed sure Apple didn't sit there going,
" let's be last in line of all the major DAWs to get full PDC! that will get all those straggling Logic 5 PC die hards to buy a mac!"
( remember it has PDC on audio and instrument tracks, just not on busses )

To pretend that there is little difference between Logic 5 and Logic 7, and that the Emagic / Apple crew have been sleeping is silly though.

Sascha Franck wrote: (and I'm not here to defend any Apple policies - because they just stink).

Pretty much an obvious thing though as Windows has got to be the most common OS worldwide, including the net. So hackers/programmers chose that one to attack people - simply because they can do more harm.

There is nothing even close to an executable in Unix, Microsoft really dropped the ball with this "feature", and that alone has more to do with the vulnerability of windows than market share. Think about the shear amount of mac haters out there, then think about a shear lack of viruses for OSX.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:42 pm

machinesworking wrote:Think about the shear amount of mac haters out there, then think about a shear lack of viruses for OSX.

Err? Where's the logic behind that?

_niko_ · Post by **_niko_** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:45 pm

There is nothing even close to an executable in Unix, Microsoft really dropped the ball with this "feature", and that alone has more to do with the vulnerability of windows than market share. Think about the shear amount of mac haters out there, then think about a shear lack of viruses for OSX.

Wtf??? On unix every file can be made executable by just changing the exec flag on file permissions. Don't understand what you mean...
Just because you don't like Macs you don't necessarily write virii. And if it is just for the fact that you'd need a mac to see if your virus actually works.

Niko

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:45 pm

machinesworking wrote:online people talk major garbage

well.. the thing is that online, you often have more 'direct access' to a person's psyche, lacking the inhibition of social stigma in meatspace relationships..

it's like in the olden days, if you create a letters-only basis with someone, you got a thought-out response instead of whatever

often, giving people a nudge to vent is exactly that.. a nudge to vent.. to create evidence.. & the format gives people a non-recursive experience..

like, the hunter knows its game :p

why they love to hate logic