Ever feel sad about being deluged with Western tonality when there are so many other ways to go? Sometimes I do. I sometimes wish I had more access to Indian and Asian musicians (in person). My ear is fairly twisted, but I still gravitate toward even-tempered stuff due to the instruments I play.
But on the other hand, when confronted by Joshua Bell playing Schubert, Puccini, or Saint-Saens, it ain't so bad after all.
Western Tonality
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- KVRAF
- 4182 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Interesting thought.
I think that I'm like stuck with tempered tuning for my own stuff, obviously my education (studied that shit) and also computers being the main reason for this.
Not that there's anything bad with tempered tuning, at least it does allow to use all tonalities freely and modulate between them, but I really do enjoy some indian, asian and arabian stuff sometimes.
Just seen some turkish trio recently (Saz, Bass Saz (or whatever it might be called) and Darbuka), been HIGHLY impressed.
OK, the most impressive things have been coming from the Darbuka dude who was just f**king incredible, producing a greater range of sounds out of that small single hand-drum than any normal drummer could ever thing of getting out of a fully fledged set, but then, the Saz dudes have been amazing too, and there's beem a LOT of tonal stuff going on that I'd had no clue about how such things would go along with my instrument arsenal(guitars, basses, computer), let alone my musical arsenal.
Even if I knew what the heck they were doing there, there'd be no chance I could ever join them with, say, my guitar.
And those were just Saz'es, not even sounding halfway as weird as some of those, say, gamelan instruments (or some funny african ones, saw a documentation recently, you bet there's some WEIRD instruments all over the world!).
The weirdest thing being that some of the instruments sometimes just seem to be TOTALLY out of tune against each other, yet the listening experience isn't exactly (if at all) disharmonic. Now try that with your keys, basses, guitars and whatever - tune one to, say a = 440Hz, another to 400 and yet another to 480 - it simply won't work!
Then alter some occasional pitches on any of those not to fit into tempered tuning anymore - impossible!
Maybe part of the reason it works for all those "world instruments" is that they're designed to suit EXACTLY that kind of music while most of our western instruments (following tempered tuning) are designed to suit ALL sorts of (western) music styles.
There's those orchestras using more classical versions of both instruments and tunings over here in the west as well, and while they're just sounding great when playing some baroque stuff, they don't fit well in "modern" music anymore, especially once things are modulating a lot through tonalities.
Oh, and there's some old lutes (one of my guitar teachers used to be a master on those), also having "inbetween" frets for some notes, plus eventually even some drone strings - it's just obvious they won't work in any key. But for the music done on those it's surely a benefit.
Personally I'm usually pretty much happy treating all of our western 12 keys the same, so it really doesn't matter much if I play in E or Db - still, it's taking away some sound sensations of what is available.
I think that I'm like stuck with tempered tuning for my own stuff, obviously my education (studied that shit) and also computers being the main reason for this.
Not that there's anything bad with tempered tuning, at least it does allow to use all tonalities freely and modulate between them, but I really do enjoy some indian, asian and arabian stuff sometimes.
Just seen some turkish trio recently (Saz, Bass Saz (or whatever it might be called) and Darbuka), been HIGHLY impressed.
OK, the most impressive things have been coming from the Darbuka dude who was just f**king incredible, producing a greater range of sounds out of that small single hand-drum than any normal drummer could ever thing of getting out of a fully fledged set, but then, the Saz dudes have been amazing too, and there's beem a LOT of tonal stuff going on that I'd had no clue about how such things would go along with my instrument arsenal(guitars, basses, computer), let alone my musical arsenal.
Even if I knew what the heck they were doing there, there'd be no chance I could ever join them with, say, my guitar.
And those were just Saz'es, not even sounding halfway as weird as some of those, say, gamelan instruments (or some funny african ones, saw a documentation recently, you bet there's some WEIRD instruments all over the world!).
The weirdest thing being that some of the instruments sometimes just seem to be TOTALLY out of tune against each other, yet the listening experience isn't exactly (if at all) disharmonic. Now try that with your keys, basses, guitars and whatever - tune one to, say a = 440Hz, another to 400 and yet another to 480 - it simply won't work!
Then alter some occasional pitches on any of those not to fit into tempered tuning anymore - impossible!
Maybe part of the reason it works for all those "world instruments" is that they're designed to suit EXACTLY that kind of music while most of our western instruments (following tempered tuning) are designed to suit ALL sorts of (western) music styles.
There's those orchestras using more classical versions of both instruments and tunings over here in the west as well, and while they're just sounding great when playing some baroque stuff, they don't fit well in "modern" music anymore, especially once things are modulating a lot through tonalities.
Oh, and there's some old lutes (one of my guitar teachers used to be a master on those), also having "inbetween" frets for some notes, plus eventually even some drone strings - it's just obvious they won't work in any key. But for the music done on those it's surely a benefit.
Personally I'm usually pretty much happy treating all of our western 12 keys the same, so it really doesn't matter much if I play in E or Db - still, it's taking away some sound sensations of what is available.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
your typical shuffle is binary (long, short)
squeeze it into eg. a 7-step rhythm (3(long, short)+long) and let it play until it sinks into your bones. funky.
home is where you stay
squeeze it into eg. a 7-step rhythm (3(long, short)+long) and let it play until it sinks into your bones. funky.
home is where you stay
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
I've never liked 'digital accuracy' for tunings in anything I do. I started off like Lou Reed, and I'm going to finish like Tom Waits. 
My recent Gimme Shelter tune is all over the place in offset tunings. The 'tone cups' were off lord knows how many cents +/-, so I had tuned harmonically my guitar to be at A417 and the other guitar at A434, and the majority of the music was probably 423-429, so I figured if everything could be as close as 5cents +/-, it makes for a BIG sound atleast.
But 'perfect Western tuning' and 'digital precision' does get so tiring after awhile I agree.
My recent Gimme Shelter tune is all over the place in offset tunings. The 'tone cups' were off lord knows how many cents +/-, so I had tuned harmonically my guitar to be at A417 and the other guitar at A434, and the majority of the music was probably 423-429, so I figured if everything could be as close as 5cents +/-, it makes for a BIG sound atleast. But 'perfect Western tuning' and 'digital precision' does get so tiring after awhile I agree.
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- KVRAF
- 2935 posts since 14 Dec, 2003 from Edinburgh
A few synths let you use different tuning scales, like Albino, Rhino (I'm pretty sure these two do anyway) and Cameleon.
There's loads of tunings free to download, and the set I'm thinking of has pdf that explains what they are and where they originate from.
Bit intimidating at first, but you can soon pull out some really interesting and useable ones
Jim
There's loads of tunings free to download, and the set I'm thinking of has pdf that explains what they are and where they originate from.
Bit intimidating at first, but you can soon pull out some really interesting and useable ones
Jim
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4182 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
I picked up the Baby Sitar by Jerry Jones (www.jerryjonesguitars.com) today. I'm hoping that I'll be able to wring some new stuff out of it, even though it's set up like a guitar. I'll be able to bend my way to new vistas... at least it's not a banjo.
A guy with a black coat, a hat, dark glasses and a banjo case tries to pass customs. The customs man makes him open the case. He looks inside finds a machine gun and says: "Thank god, I thought it was a banjo!"
A guy with a black coat, a hat, dark glasses and a banjo case tries to pass customs. The customs man makes him open the case. He looks inside finds a machine gun and says: "Thank god, I thought it was a banjo!"
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto