A word on trance

[tee boy]

I was just reading an article in SOS by a guy names Darren Tate. Im sure people into this music will be aware of him as a long time producer and mixer of trance and house music, with a huge list of credits and collabs. Anyway, what caught my eye was that he made several statements during the article which I found painfully accurate. Most notably was his claim that "there's nothing harder to mix than a trance record". I agree 110%. He puts this down to the density of the mixes and large quantites of reverb. Again, my thoughts to a tee. Most styles of music just seem to go together with moderate to little persuasion, but this stuff has to be scupted!

Ofcourse, there are many types of trance, and Im in no way trying to start a ruck here! I presume he is talking about your typical, hands in the air, super saw type trance (as i am). Ironically, this is the very music that most see as being simplistic to make. If only that were so! I recently had to do an Oceanlab'esque remix and was amazed how difficult it was. This isnt necessarily my type of music, but i felt I knew it enough to engineer a decent mix. But trust me it is a f**king killer! Drums and bass went together perfectly, but the main synth lines, acid lines, pads etc were a total bitch to nail. In the end i found that extreme layering and multing techniques were required to get even close to a good sounding mix.

Anyways, I know there are a lot of budding trance producers around here so I thought I'd offer my opinion, and new found respect for you guys! I listened to Corsten's new album as reference for my remix, and i have to say that on an engineering level it is f**king supperb work. Who ever mixed that fella knew his shit inside and out. Anyone who can pass me a well written, well produced, well mixed trance record gets instant respect in my book, and this is a awesome 'sounding' album.

Maybe we could (those without the trance-hate bug that is ) talk about production and mixing techniques?

[The Chase]

The only thing i find harder about trance is making the smoother transitions and also programming a synth just right.

Also, I have an extremely picky taste in trance: most of the trance songs i like were made 1998 - 2000. I simply don't like the sound of trance in the past 3 or 4 years. I don't like any of the currently popular trance artists (Above and Beyond, Gabriel and Dresden, etc.)

It seems to me that the cheese bar has lowered dramatically (tiesto aside - hes always been a bit on the cheesey side) Keep in mind that there is such a difference between good cheese (Armin Van Buuren - Comunication, Fragma - Toca Me) and bad cheese (William Orbit - Barber's Adagio for Strings, Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400)

Is anyone else with me here?

[DevonB]

Maybe we could (those without the trance-hate bug that is ) talk about production and mixing techniques?

I agree it's a bitch to mix. I gave Twister a bunch of tips on mixing, and it's showing. Mostly it does come down to quality effects and spending time with your mixes (like hours upon hours).

My tip to anyone who can't get their mix right is to kill ALL your compressors/limiters/saturators and get your mix balanced right FIRST. If you can't balance it decently there, get your butt back to the drawing board.

Devon

[The Chase]

Plus I've only heard of a remix or two that Danny Howells had made. Other than that, the name is new to me. Who has he worked with and when?

[DevonB]

Fragma - Toca Me

Mmmm tasty stuff! Got that back awhile ago and loved it.

Devon

[The Chase]

I think that today many trance artists apply way too much compression to the point of the entire song quieting a bit on the beat when the kick comes in, and everything else gets louder on the upbeat.

[The Chase]

Fragma - Toca Me

Mmmm tasty stuff! Got that back awhile ago and loved it.

I know! Too bad everything else Fragma made has been pure-bred chedder, including the new version of "Toca Me". I think its called "Toca's Miracle" or something.

[tee boy]

The only thing i find harder about trance is making the smoother transitions and also programming a synth just right.

Also, I have an extremely picky taste in trance: most of the trance songs i like were made 1998 - 2000. I somply don't like the sound of trance in the past 3 or 4 years. I don't like any of the currently popular trance artists (Above and Beyond, Gabriel and Dresden, etc.)

It seems to me that the cheese bar has lowered dramatically (tiesto aside - hes always been a bit on the cheesey side) Keep in mind that there is such a difference between good cheese (Armin Van Buuren - Comunication, Fragma - Toca Me) and bad cheese (William Orbit - Barber's Adagio for Strings, Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400)

Is anyone else with me here?

I agree totally. There is cheese... then there is CHEESE! The 98 - 99 sound was more creative than it is now, and ofcourse all the cliches weren't cliches then. There were some good tracks around then, but i think from an engineering stand point they were pretty poor. I listen to some 99 trance stuff the other day and the mixes weren't half what they are today. It seems as the cheese bar has lowered, the production bar has gone way up.

Let me give you an example. 'Rank 1 - Airwave', typical cheesy 99 trance tune. Made it high in the UK charts, and was generally a success. But i bet you it wouldnt get a release today, cuz the mix is terrible.


Devon,
I agree with you also. Im thinking less for general mixing info, and more for specific tricks. For example, I sometime cut and pitchshift a long reverb to follow the music. This works great for single note stabs and that, cuz it allows you to have wacking great reverbs without the mix clutter. Another thing it do is to side chain kick / bassline if they conflict. This can be a problem with on of those typical trance basslines since they often fire on the beat yet occupy the upper low range with the kick. I hate that! Side chaining allows you to retain the feel of the bass pattern, yet enable it to sit in the mix. Wit regard to reverb, I like to use very contrasting settings. For example, I might use a long PCM91 plate on one sound, yet leave another all but dry. This works particularly well on the beats, since these can cut through the mix and give it some clarity. Drums and beats are where i feel totally at home in dance music. I often feel that my own beats far surpas those in most commerical tunes. I usually use multing to mix my beats just right, and always contruct them in the audio editor to ensure perfect timing. For example, I might take a kick drum, seperate it onto three tracks, then EQ and compress each one to exentuate a different element of the hit. The first might have 20db or more reduction and heavy EQ so that all you get is a tigh pop or click etc. This allow you to mix gains and have total control over the elements of the sound. Finally, I like to use side chain mix compression sometimes when i need a particularly big sound. By applying compression to the mix triggered by the kick, you can emulate club speaker compression and get than big room sound on any system.

Phew, so there are a few of my mixing techniques that Iv learnt and developed over time. Like i said, i find beats and bass a breeze to nail with pretty top results. Ambient and textural breakdown stuff i also have nailed. But i do find synth lines hard to get. This is probably why Im constantly banging on about JP8000's and Virus's - cuz i cant get anything else to work! Usually I will layer to quite contrasting parts to get a thick composite sound. This helps, along with shelving much of the low frequency content. Infact, these are my most crucial words of advice - pay CLOSE attention to sub 200Hz on all but the bass instruments, and make sure that kick and bass both fire on time. Nothing sounds worse than a muddy mix, with the bass and kick flamming everywhere, yuck!

Anyone else got any secret kung fu moves, tarnce style? Any particular views on how best to layer beats, loops? Some people use say on loops, with all the bottom shelved, and the rest single hits. Other people layer multiple loops to create thick composite rhythm parts. Do you ever through a break beat in there for good measure? How about synth lines... etc?

[VitaminD]

you know.. I whistle the (slow part) melody to toca' from time to time

I do prefer a lot of the stuff between 98 and 01

and yes.. I agree trance is hard to mix.. much of the sounds seem to use the same freq space.. its very easy to get mush - I can personally attest to this . Now try doing a mix with a pair of $30 cheapo headphones.. sometimes I feel like a surgeon trying to do open-heart surgery with a scalpel that has a 10 foot long handle - I have a lot of tools in the bag but the surgery is still not very accurate.



that said.. I'd go one step further and say some of the melody content can be really hard to get right too... I think toca' is actually a good example of this.. I really like Tiesto's 'Urban Train' too.. as well as Pulser's 'Cloud walking', and Binary Finary's '1999'.. ahhhh good stuff, good stuff. Many elements in each and they all seem to meld in all possible ways..

but oh well.. you're never going to get everyone to agree... some people love jazz and some dont.. some people love rock and some dont.. I dont think we'll ever agree as a whole that trance is an 'equal' among other genres - it seems easier for some to hate something than to like it, especially if it doesnt have the background as some other styles. I know I've been guilty of this in the past...

However as pretentious and plastic as some may consider trance, for me, listening to 'cloud walking' (or the others I mentioned) is like putting on a shirt tailored just for me.. and thats the only thing I really hope others can respect. That everyone here has a style or type in some form of music that just feels right for them... that just seems natural.

Trance is it for me.*









* note: I still listen to and enjoy other styles.. Classical, IDM, Rock, Pop, DnB, etc.. and I think tunnel vision with respect to music selection can be a hinderance to our appreciation and understanding of music on a 'higher' level.. but thats just me.

Basically, the more I know and accept about all styles that I possibly can, the more I understand and appreciate the styles I enjoy the most. but im rambling now...

[tee boy]

Plus I've only heard of a remix or two that Danny Howells had made. Other than that, the name is new to me. Who has he worked with and when?

Darren Tate, Iv heard his name mentioned countless times in interviews and shit. I believe he is Jurgen Vries, Orion, DT8, Angelic... so he's no stranger to the cheese himself! That said, in the article he came across as a guy who knows enough and he did make a lot of sense - he clearly stated many things that I had to find out the hard way.

But regardless of the mans music, I have respect for his since he does the lot himself. Maybe so called 'DJ / producers' do pretty much jack chan when making records, but this guys writtens, produces and engineers the lot. And his mixes end up on top selling releases, that more point!

[VitaminD]

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Darren+Tate

[The Chase]

Plus I've only heard of a remix or two that Danny Howells had made. Other than that, the name is new to me. Who has he worked with and when?

Darren Tate, Iv heard his name mentioned countless times in interviews and shit. I believe he is Jurgen Vries, Orion, DT8, Angelic...

Angelic made one of my favorite tunes called "It's My turn" - awesome song. Danny is quite alright then.

[Goa Head]

Nice post.

A lot of work goes into a trance production, and it is nice to see someone post a bias opinion about this. I think that is why some people get a little heated when someone puts down trance. Like so... Goa/psy is an extremely hard genre to produce, so I do run my mouth a bit at times. I'm not a huge fan of the more commercial clubby trance, but I do find myself jamming to the real old school classics every so often.

Tips, you will find that they are very protective by the producer. It ussually takes a few years of experimention to find the right sound/mix, and quite honestly, hard to explain. Every situation is different, but you sorta know where to go from the given point when you have that experience ... just like any other style.

Cheers.

[tee boy]

Chase,
I just noticed, you dont have much taste for the boy Zombie Nation . You know, that tune was stupid, but he has an awesome sound mate. He did a load of these wacky techno tunes, as John Starlight. You should check out 'Blood Angels', its a quality tune.

[intel]

if your drums and bass went together perfectly then you've already overcome 90% of my engineering headaches.



(sorry, I don't do trance, though)