Another DnB Track, looking for feedback :)

[Jopmanajop]

Now it sounds dynamic, good thing, but check in mono - the snare disappeared. The most important element shouldn't be that wide and out of phase. If you really wanna make it wide, then layer something wide on top of it (stereo noise, clap, reverb, etc.). Be careful with widening everything, get some stereo analyzers to check the phase, it is much more important than mastering, it is the foundation of a good mix

[Zeekuh]

You guys who stepped up are idd heroes! I owe you a great gratitude.

- Changed up the stereo width, aka lowered it on elements that should be more centered like the snare.
- Added a clap layer to snare which i steroized, it cant be heard in mono really but the snare comes through so i think it's ok.
- Adjusted kick volume and increased snare volume a bit post filtersweep pre drop.
- Overlooked the stereo imager on master track a bit, it was panning more to the left because of the sub bass increase.
- Changed up the bassline to a more boring version since there was to much going on during the drop.
- Tweaked volume overall on different elements.

Think it sounds better mono now, it's not the same as stereo, but it's listenable at least, i aint sure what the aim is when comparing stereo vs mono sound on mix.

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-1/s-mVhrr

Got a question about tonal balance control, is this reliable source for tracks? When i use it i seem to differ in high end alot compared to other released tracks in dnb genre.

[Jopmanajop]

Did you use some weird stereo widening on the whole mix? Everything feels on the left now
I guess it is some kinda stereo spread effect, where some parts of the spectrum are spreading to the left and right in series. You can see that actually, get Voxengo Correlometer, it's free, it will show you if you have any spectral phase problem. So the problem is between 200 and 700, it's below zero, out of phase

2020-03-05_140111.png

This is the thing you do in the mix, not on the master track, because again the impact will be lost. Also check DMG Audio TrackMeter, Nugen Visualizer, ADPTR Metric AB, SPL HawkEye, they have stereo correlometer and phase spectrum meters. With that type of stereo widening the usual wideband phase meter won't be any help, because technically things are in phase, but here you overdone this, so again, no "mastering" like this, don't touch the master track, work inside the mix

This is how it looks

2020-03-05_141112.png

see those weird dips and peaks? Moreover, they're static, that's how you recognise the effect

Now this is a commercial track

2020-03-05_141139.png

only one frame that doesn't represent the whole picture, because it is constantly changing. And look how narrow it is, it doesn't mean the track is narrow, but rather in phase
You're doing great by the way, keep going, your enthusiasm is infectious

[Jopmanajop]

Oh, and about Tonal Balance Control. Yes, it is good, because it shows average signal, not the peaks. You can use predefined curves already, line Bass Heavy or EDM, but you can also create your own by analyzing your favorite reference tracks
But don't forget that this thing alone won't help you if there is something wrong in the mix besides the balance. But don't let that discourage you

[Kongru]

Some might disagree and it's down to your taste at the end of the day but when I make DnB I always make the kick and snare mono (or nearly mono for the snare) and all the same velocity, this is because those elements need to be the clearest. Also make sure your sub frequencies are mono as having them stereo will muddy up your sound.

I recommend checking your mix through this plugin: https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/bvs-virtual-studio.html it will show you what your mix sounds like on different systems. It's free!

[Endor-8o8]

Just not convinced by that lead synth in the same part where the voice is moving around. Maybe you could try an edit where there's only the lead synth without the voice over it and vice versa. Just my two cents...

Lot of improvements ! Really nice work !
Keep your very first mix somewhere, and when you'll feel like you reach your goal, listen to the final mix and to the first one. You'll be proud !

[Zeekuh]

That are some really useful tools, i liked the correlation meter. Tryed downloading dmgaudio trackmeter but got Virus warning of a trojan from that download from their official site
Will definetly check out beyerdynamic virtual studio, looks interesting.

Done some changes:
- Removed the imager from master and moved it to a seperate premaster track with all stereo elements above 700 hz.
- Did some volume adjustments
- Redid eq on lead melody instruments
- Removed some of the vocal chops to make some room for the melody lead.
- Adjusted stereo seperation on all channels to make it more mono friendly while keeping a good stereo width.
- Loaded a maduk track into tonal balance and got some different guidelines to go after, redid eq a bit on most stuff.
- Checked with correlation meter, im not 100% on how it works so might still be some L/R inbalance. I think the small inbalance might be the moving panned elements.

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-2/s-AlV7M

Again thanks for the input everyone.
Also @ Beyerdynamic virtual studio, i understand aim is to sound good on all systems but is it something worth straving for? Feels like if you make it sound alright on one it sounds crap on others, like car one gives alot of bass while big veneu is really discant.

[Jopmanajop]

Duuude, again, you don't need this stereo effect, check again in mono, or don't, because it just doesn't sound right even in stereo. Try not to do any stereo tricks like that, it ruins the mix easily. Listen to the lead in mono, it's gone
It is more balanced now indeed
Virtual Studio isn't a good solution at all, just makes your headphones sound even worse. EQing your headphones is the first right thing to do. Check Sonarworks Reference, they have the right curve for your headphones. Or try Toneboosters Morphit (but i'd recommend Sonarworks). These tools will correct any frequency imbalances, so your headphones will sound flat, but in a good way. Then, if you want some room simulation, try some crossfeed plugins like Goodhertz CanOpener, some people recommend Waves NX or Abbey Road Studio
That's weird, it's just a demo installer, it shouldn't be like that, official installers are clean, checked many times before

[thecontrolcentre]

The latest mix is waaaay better. Still too much stereoizing going on imho, but there's much more punch, and clarity than before. Try doing a completely mono version ...

[Zeekuh]

Duuude, again, you don't need this stereo effect, check again in mono, or don't, because it just doesn't sound right even in stereo. Try not to do any stereo tricks like that, it ruins the mix easily. Listen to the lead in mono, it's gone
It is more balanced now indeed
Virtual Studio isn't a good solution at all, just makes your headphones sound even worse. EQing your headphones is the first right thing to do. Check Sonarworks Reference, they have the right curve for your headphones. Or try Toneboosters Morphit (but i'd recommend Sonarworks). These tools will correct any frequency imbalances, so your headphones will sound flat, but in a good way. Then, if you want some room simulation, try some crossfeed plugins like Goodhertz CanOpener, some people recommend Waves NX or Abbey Road Studio
That's weird, it's just a demo installer, it shouldn't be like that, official installers are clean, checked many times before

- Removed the stereo effect.

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-3/s-6d5g8

I think you guys are right, it doesnt sound worse without the stereo effect and its more crossdevice friendly so im going for this like you suggest.
It started out with me thinking my mixes sounded thin so i thought wide stereoization was the solution.

@ the trojan might be my windows that's overprotective, i will check deeper into this.

[Robmobius]

It's a lot better mate. But there is definitely something strange in the stereo going on.

What are you using to monitor the track with?

[Robmobius]

It's a lot better mate. But there is definitely something strange in the stereo going on.

What are you using to monitor the track with?

EDIT: - haven't checked out the latest one you just posted. Will check a bit later.

[Kongru]

Also @ Beyerdynamic virtual studio, i understand aim is to sound good on all systems but is it something worth straving for? Feels like if you make it sound alright on one it sounds crap on others, like car one gives alot of bass while big veneu is really discant.

Eh it's just to give you some perspective. Cars usually are really sub heavy, so that gives an idea how the track will sound if you show your mate in their car or something. I'd say the most important sound tests are your phone, a TV and cheap headphones as that's how people will usually listen to it.

[thecontrolcentre]

Also @ Beyerdynamic virtual studio, i understand aim is to sound good on all systems but is it something worth straving for? Feels like if you make it sound alright on one it sounds crap on others, like car one gives alot of bass while big veneu is really discant.

Eh it's just to give you some perspective. Cars usually are really sub heavy, so that gives an idea how the track will sound if you show your mate in their car or something. I'd say the most important sound tests are your phone, a TV and cheap headphones as that's how people will usually listen to it.

Yeah ... but there's no substitute for decent flat monitors. Good accurate monitoring leads to better sounds in the writing stage as well as when mixing. Its important to check on other devices ^^ as mentioned, but if your stuff only sounds good on crap headphones its a huge problem

[Zeekuh]

It's a lot better mate. But there is definitely something strange in the stereo going on.

What are you using to monitor the track with?

I mostly use my closed headphones beyerdynamics dt250, but for short periods im using krk rokit 5 g3 monitors, since i live in appartment i cant pump volume enough.

Made some more changes, think i fixed the stereo:
- Muted the second premaster track containing 700 hz upwards frequencys and only used the mono premaster. Overall it gave a more clean sound imo with more bass precense.
- Lowered sub bass one octave after analysing another song, noticed there was alot missing down the low end of freq spectrum.
- Added a low pass around 18khz area.
- Tweaked volumes a bit more.

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-4/s-nZkaq