DUNE 3 is now available!!

[fisherKing]

i don't find it difficult at all to work in dune3; it's just not that complicated.

It's not necessarily complicated, it's just a poorly designed GUI that leads to a measurably worse UX than with many other synths. It reminds me of z3ta+ - I bought it when it was $20 but, even then, it was just way more effort than it was worth to actually use the thing. DUNE's not as bad as that but it's towards that end of the continuum.

spend a day with massive x (amazing, btw) if you want to take on a challenging GUI.

But I don't, I have work to do and limited time to spend on it. If a tool gets in the way of me getting things done, I will look for another tool that doesn't. Looking at Massive X, I haven't even been tempted to watch any of the videos, let alone download the demo. Life's too short to waste on that kind of stuff.

i use the plugin a lot, and have never had to perform 'a hundred actions' to edit a sound

I'm sure you have, you just haven't noticed. There are so many things its GUI does poorly that I find it a real roadblock in my production process. Have you spent any time with Thorn? Thorn's GUI gets almost everything right, where DUNE's GUI gets many things wrong. The latest update improved things a little but it's still just about the last synth I'd think of using for anything. If my bandmate didn't stick it into so many things, we probably wouldn't use it at all but I still manage to get rid of half the instances he uses most of the time.

what you feel about it speaks for you, not for everyone. if teksonik (or i) find it workable, we... find it workable. speak for yourself, no one make you spokesperson for the kvr community...

I was simply adding my voice to a chorus of others with similar issues but it's objectively true and there for all to see. It comes down to the fact you and Tek are happy to put up with it, others of us are less happy. i.e. You can't say that these issues don't exist, you can only say that they don't bother you.

i really don't find dune3 to be complicated; and i am very-much enjoying exploring MX. but honestly, if you have 'work to do and limited time'... why are you spending so much of it trying to prove yourself right, and the rest of us wrong? if you don't like the synth, use something else, and let those of us who do like it, discuss it here. just a humble suggestion...

[BONES]

I think it's important that the right information is given in a place like this, where people are likely to come looking for advice. So when someone is wrong, I will persist in giving the right information. It's pretty simple, really. And there is no reason at all that only people who like something should discuss it. Again, it is important that all aspects, good and bad, are discussed and, honestly, if you can't see that, you're an idiot.

[fisherKing]

I think it's important that the right information is given in a place like this, where people are likely to come looking for advice. So when someone is wrong, I will persist in giving the right information. It's pretty simple, really. And there is no reason at all that only people who like something should discuss it. Again, it is important that all aspects, good and bad, are discussed and, honestly, if you can't see that, you're an idiot.

and i love how what you think is 'right', and the rest of us are therefore 'wrong'. but it's good, at least, that you believe in yourself

[BONES]

I am simply able to discern fact from opinion. You can have whatever opinion you like but when you refuse to accept the facts, that's not helpful. In this case, it is a simple fact that DUNE is more difficult to work with than many of it's competitors, for a variety of verifiable reasons. So when you say it's not, then you are wrong. Your opinion that it's no big deal is perfectly valid, although different to mine and others in this thread.

[fisherKing]

I am simply able to discern fact from opinion. You can have whatever opinion you like but when you refuse to accept the facts, that's not helpful. In this case, it is a simple fact that DUNE is more difficult to work with than many of it's competitors, for a variety of verifiable reasons. So when you say it's not, then you are wrong. Your opinion that it's no big deal is perfectly valid, although different to mine and others in this thread.

impressive that you can 'discern fact from opinion', only a fact is an absolute; your thoughts on the matter fall into the realm of opinion. it's important to understand the difference.

[BONES]

How is it my opinion that you have to switch between oscillator UIs in order to access them, something you don't have to do on many other synths? How is it my opinion that you need to isolate (solo) layers to work out where a problem might lay, something you don't have to do on a synth without layers? How is it my opinion that two effects groups, on two different tabs, requires a greater number of interactions (mouse clicks, if you prefer) than an always visible effects section? These things are facts. They don't change, we all have to deal with them. Whether you find dealing with them a chore or not is an opinion - you can say "no, it isn't" and I can say "yes, it is" and neither of us are wrong. But if you or I say that you don't have to switch oscillator UIs to access another oscillator in DUNE, then that is wrong. Plain and simple. That you cannot see the difference is, frankly, quite disturbing.

[Ingonator]

I guess i already mentioned that when the synth was released but besides a great sound and a huge amount of features DUNE 3 is a powerful wavetable synth and the format of the WAV wavetables with up to 256 single waveforms is compatible with those from Icarus and Serum which like DUNE 3 got powerful built-in wavetable and waveform editors too and you could use wavetables created with any of those 3 in the other 2 synths. FWIW importing those wavetables in VPS Avenger is possible too.

For example i had used the quite unique picture resynthesis in the Serum wavetable editor to create wavetabkes that i then used in DUNE 3. Picture resynthesis in most cases leads to quite unusable results but could also lead to useful and/or unusual wavetables.

I had also used the sample resynthesis in Icarus to create wavetable that i the used in this and DUNE 3. An example were samples taken from real glass being hit with a spoon to create sound. Editing the wavetable resulting from the resynthesis could then lead to a wavetable with only a few waveforms that gives different results than the original sample.

Besides those examples the editor included in DUNE 3 is poweful enough to create tons of wavetables and single waveforms with it from scratch. The mathematical formula editor which is comparable to that in Serum could lead to quite interesting waveforms and you could even create a full wavetable from a single formula when using 2 variables.

A big advantage of DUNE 3 and Icarus compared to Serum is that they got an adjustable waveform interpolation which leads to having smooth interpolation beween a few or just 2 waveforms while in Serum you need a wavetable with many interpolated waveforms to get a smooth morphing between waveforms. That means that in Serum you need to have the interpolation pre-calculated in the wavetable (using a corresponding feature in the editor) while in DUNE 3 and Icarus this is done by the synth engine in real-time.

[fisherKing]

How is it my opinion that you have to switch between oscillator UIs in order to access them, something you don't have to do on many other synths? How is it my opinion that you need to isolate (solo) layers to work out where a problem might lay, something you don't have to do on a synth without layers? How is it my opinion that two effects groups, on two different tabs, requires a greater number of interactions (mouse clicks, if you prefer) than an always visible effects section? These things are facts. They don't change, we all have to deal with them. Whether you find dealing with them a chore or not is an opinion - you can say "no, it isn't" and I can say "yes, it is" and neither of us are wrong. But if you or I say that you don't have to switch oscillator UIs to access another oscillator in DUNE, then that is wrong. Plain and simple. That you cannot see the difference is, frankly, quite disturbing.

honestly, you have to read what i wrote, not just post more comments (in fact, read your own posts). no one is arguing the steps one has to take to do something, we're talking about whether it is 'difficult' to take those steps; for a lot of people, it is not.

you wrote "it is a simple fact that DUNE is more difficult to work with than many of it's competitors", and i disagree, as do many others. which is our opinion, counter to your own opinion, which remains... an opinion. checkmate.

[Kian Russell]

I agree with Bones
Dune 3 sucks donkey ballz.
There is an old saying
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
For those who like 1 finger sequences I can understand.
Otherwise layers in Dune3 holds everything back.

[AnX]

I agree with Bones
Dune 3 sucks donkey ballz.
There is an old saying
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
For those who like 1 finger sequences I can understand.
Otherwise layers in Dune3 holds everything back.

you're not forced to use the layers, or anything else

it can be as simple or complex as you want, nothing is compulsory

[Kian Russell]

you're not forced to use the layers, or anything else
it can be as simple or complex as you want, nothing is compulsory

But if I do go down the layer route everything goes South.
Dune 3 doesn't accommodate the same luxuries as Parawave Rapid.
Rapid smahes Dune 3 in all but the built in wavetable functionality and maybe its Fm.

[fisherKing]

I agree with Bones
Dune 3 sucks donkey ballz.
There is an old saying
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
For those who like 1 finger sequences I can understand.
Otherwise layers in Dune3 holds everything back.

good, then, that there are simpler synths for those unable (or unwilling) to learn their way around a 'complex' GUI...

[EnGee]

I agree with Bones
Dune 3 sucks donkey ballz.
There is an old saying
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
For those who like 1 finger sequences I can understand.
Otherwise layers in Dune3 holds everything back.

you're not forced to use the layers, or anything else

it can be as simple or complex as you want, nothing is compulsory

I agree. Don't let the layers distract you!
When you begin making your own sounds, it begins to be ok.
I mean while you are thinking a little about your next step, you can do that extra click, right?

If you consider it an old school synth and don't compare it with synths that with visual feedback, ... etc, then you'll get used to it after making few presets.

I did spent some time with it yesterday, and I have enjoyed making some presets with one to two layers Great synth

[Introspective]

good, then, that there are simpler synths for those unable (or unwilling) to learn their way around a 'complex' GUI...

Boy, you really are offended by the fact that people don't like this workflow! It sounds like you really need to justify people's opinions as being caused by being "too dense to get a synth with layers."

It's ... frustrating. There is no lack of intelligence, here. Perhaps a slight lack of patience, but it's hard to claim that when there are other synths that are just as "complex" and require just as much of a deep-dive to use. It's not that users are unable NOR are they "unwilling" to learn the ins and outs of a synth: it's simply that Dune is cumbersome, and when there are other tools that are have less friction to patchmaking, it's fine to choose to use another synth.

But, hey: you do keep playing the "it's your opinion" card in the end.

...in an insulting way... but still, it's there. So, we'll just carry on.

[clipnotic]

It's better to have more layers in one synth instead to load for every layer an extra instance or not? And for every layer the best is, to have the complete synth features again. And for that you need in each case a page. But if you don't like that you still can load for every layer an own instance, so what's the problem?