Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[zvenx]

Thanks. With google translate I was able to follow you.

Alas I still can't lose my beta license, let me email support.
rsp

[ATS]

I said this 3 or 4 times already in this thread. 1.5 was a FREE update. We could NOT use a dongle suddenly. Not elicenser and not iLok. This would have meant, that all users who dont already own a dongle and wanted to update would have been forced to BUY a dongle actually. I can imaginge the moaning here would have been even worse in that case. Doing NOTHING was no alternative, too. Apart from the financial loss, buyers literally flooded us with mails to STOP the warez immediately. They said they paid and dont want to see it for free. There were even more stresful than the CodeMeter haters
So in the end CodeMeter offered the best possibilites of a.) a secure protection and b.) no dongle required (optional) and c.) affordable and QUICKLY available for licensing. We could not imagine, that nitpicking over a feq KB background process and the difficulty of pressing some buttons in the correct described order will be such a big hurdle for some people. But however, I am the sound guy, questions and feedback for the copyprotection pls to Rene. Feature wishes and sound design questions to me.

you don't have to buy a dongle for ilok. I would of MUCH preferred ilok. You can look back at my posts. I have really never complained about anything at all before. I been on here like 20 years. I think this new protection sucks.

[dreamvoid]

I said this 3 or 4 times already in this thread. 1.5 was a FREE update. We could NOT use a dongle suddenly. Not elicenser and not iLok. This would have meant, that all users who dont already own a dongle and wanted to update would have been forced to BUY a dongle actually. I can imaginge the moaning here would have been even worse in that case. Doing NOTHING was no alternative, too. Apart from the financial loss, buyers literally flooded us with mails to STOP the warez immediately. They said they paid and dont want to see it for free. There were even more stresful than the CodeMeter haters

You simply could have made this a PAID update, especially in the light that there are legit customers complaining about the warez shit. I'm not a Codemeter hater - I had several Codemeter dongles before and they worked fine. It is your implementation of the Codemeter, with all this user punishment of handling a dongle Tamagotchi, what upsets me and others! In your rage against the illegal offerings you acted against your legal users, something you will probably never admit.

[Raphie]

I fully understand your position and the choices made as you can’t please everyone. I do appreciate that. And yes rather Wibu than warez floating around.

I said this 3 or 4 times already in this thread. 1.5 was a FREE update. We could NOT use a dongle suddenly. Not elicenser and not iLok. This would have meant, that all users who dont already own a dongle and wanted to update would have been forced to BUY a dongle actually. I can imaginge the moaning here would have been even worse in that case. Doing NOTHING was no alternative, too. Apart from the financial loss, buyers literally flooded us with mails to STOP the warez immediately. They said they paid and dont want to see it for free. There were even more stresful than the CodeMeter haters
So in the end CodeMeter offered the best possibilites of a.) a secure protection and b.) no dongle required (optional) and c.) affordable and QUICKLY available for licensing. We could not imagine, that nitpicking over a feq KB background process and the difficulty of pressing some buttons in the correct described order will be such a big hurdle for some people. But however, I am the sound guy, questions and feedback for the copyprotection pls to Rene. Feature wishes and sound design questions to me.

[DocSnyder]

Well, could also be users are pissed because you tricked your customers into subscription like scheme where they have to ask for permission to use the plugin they've bought and also "Computers are software activated and refresh their license automatically all 90 days." which is just a blatant lie.

[zvenx]

Thanks. With google translate I was able to follow you.

Alas I still can't lose my beta license, let me email support.
rsp

And for completeness, I emailed Rene about removing them and it was done very soon afterwards.
Thanks
rsp

[msvs]

Well, could also be users are pissed because you tricked your customers into subscription like scheme where they have to ask for permission to use the plugin they've bought and also "Computers are software activated and refresh their license automatically all 90 days." which is just a blatant lie.

bullshit. A subscription costs permanently money. The 90 day check is just a check, which cost nothing. It just checks if you still have the right to use the plugin. If you sold it, you wont be able to activate again, which is quite logical. Nexus btw checks all 30 days. We chose 90 days because in that time you can totally be offline, which is convenient for some users who travel. We could have chosen to do the check on every launch, which would sound more logical in the first step. Its still no subscription, but you would have to be online all the time

You simply could have made this a PAID update,

we we couldnt since before the crack we already announced 1.5. as a FREE update

you don't have to buy a dongle for ilok

ah ok, didnt know that. However last time we calculated it, iLok was just too expansive for us.

[zvenx]

Well, could also be users are pissed because you tricked your customers into subscription like scheme where they have to ask for permission to use the plugin they've bought and also "Computers are software activated and refresh their license automatically all 90 days." which is just a blatant lie.

bullshit. A subscription costs permanently money. The 90 day check is just a check, which cost nothing. It just checks if you still have the right to use the plugin. If you sold it, you wont be able to activate again, which is quite logical. Nexus btw checks all 30 days. We chose 90 days because in that time you can totally be offline, which is convenient for some users who travel. We could have chosen to do the check on every launch, which would sound more logical in the first step. Its still no subscription, but you would have to be online all the time

You simply could have made this a PAID update,

we we couldnt since before the crack we already announced 1.5. as a FREE update

you don't have to buy a dongle for ilok

ah ok, didnt know that. However last time we calculated it, iLok was just too expansive for us.

Thanks. I now understand the 90 days better. Of course developers many developers (with c/r and serial numbers) don't have that protection, but I can't personally hold that against you if you decide to go that route. Your business, your call. My gripe as you know you said you will one day have, automatic checks and reactivation.

and since I indeed have no idea of the difference in cost between ilok and codemeter, I can't comment. But yeah ilok allows dongle, computer authorisation and now cloud (requires you to be online) and many developers leave the user the choice to decide.

(Who would know I would see the day when some clamour for the good old days of ilok..lol)
rsp

[DocSnyder]

Well, could also be users are pissed because you tricked your customers into subscription like scheme where they have to ask for permission to use the plugin they've bought and also "Computers are software activated and refresh their license automatically all 90 days." which is just a blatant lie.

bullshit. A subscription costs permanently money. The 90 day check is just a check, which cost nothing. It just checks if you still have the right to use the plugin. If you sold it, you wont be able to activate again, which is quite logical. Nexus btw checks all 30 days. We chose 90 days because in that time you can totally be offline, which is convenient for some users who travel. We could have chosen to do the check on every launch, which would sound more logical in the first step. Its still no subscription, but you would have to be online all the time

That's why I wrote "subscription like". If you run out of business (well, because piracy hurt you so bad ) or the servers are not available or you decide you don't like somebody - customers can't use it anymore. It's not a usual perpetual license. Btw that you chose to check the license even more often in Nexus doesn't make it any better, just shows you've chosen to spread this bs over different products

[msvs]

why should we, we are in business since almost 20(!) years.
If I will retire some day either someone else will take over, or we unlock the affected products via an update. But this is many many years in the future. You should really not worry about such things at the moment. And Nexus CP is entirely done by reFX' not me. I have nothing to do with Nexus Copyprotection.

[Magnut]

And Nexus CP is entirely done by reFX' not me. I have nothing to do with Nexus Copyprotection.

That's very unfortunate. One might think becuause you're one of the masterminds behind Nexus and refx & you even shared code for Avenger, was there really no hope to make a deal for the copy protection too? And may I ask why you started with a half-baken keyfile system in the first place, knowing it would not last long before being cracked?

Appreciate the responses I now read from you.

[zvenx]

I imagine at the start he still believed in the goodness of humans and didn't expect pirating to affect his business model as significantly as it apparently did.
There is a developer that I was very close to. That is exactly what happened to him. He got so disillusioned he closed shop.
rsp

[Magnut]

I imagine at the start he still believed in the goodness of humans and didn't expect pirating to affect his business model as significantly as it apparently did.
There is a developer that I was very close to. That is exactly what happened to him. He got so disillusioned he closed shop.
rsp

But all other plugins of them used better copy protection. For reasons I guess. And I knew there were discussions already with metrum or phalanx (I think it was their 2 other products that used expansions!?). And being 20 years in business they definitely knew better. That's the things that makes it hard to understand. If I'd be a bad guy I could say it was to lure customers into buying with this so user friendly cp, knowing the product would not have had that impact with cm. And then switching to cm without a proper finished system for users is yet another thing.

[zvenx]

My biggest issue is this: just like the 30 day thing from the 'other' company, this seems to have been kept secretive.

I only became aware of the 30 day thing when MS mentioned it here then I went searching and actually did find it as FAQ on refx site, I sure didn't in any of the build up both here or there to Nexus 3.
Same with this 90 day, was any of it stated before release? I only became aware of it when a user asked on this thread why does his license say it is about to expire.

Let us know what is what and let us make a decision based on completely information and disclosure. When done this way to me it feels like a 6 for a 9.

rsp

[SirkusPi]

I imagine at the start he still believed in the goodness of humans and didn't expect pirating to affect his business model as significantly as it apparently did.
There is a developer that I was very close to. That is exactly what happened to him. He got so disillusioned he closed shop.
rsp

But all other plugins of them used better copy protection. For reasons I guess. And I knew there were discussions already with metrum or phalanx (I think it was their 2 other products that used expansions!?). And being 20 years in business they definitely knew better. That's the things that makes it hard to understand. If I'd be a bad guy I could say it was to lure customers into buying with this so user friendly cp, knowing the product would not have had that impact with cm. And then switching to cm without a proper finished system for users is yet another thing.

(Emphasis added.) This. 100% this. This is why the whole situation is so infuriating, and why I will never trust VPS or make a purchase from them again.